Wanted to get some thoughts & feedback on this simple Rider rework I’ve been conceptulalizing for the next Campaign concept im working on after August Storm Soviet-Japanese campaign idea
Goal is simple:
Simple coding to make rider class playable, thereby increasing chance of this happening.
Simple change to make AA vehicles and scout vehicle relevant, where currently they hug tank slots
Resonably easy reformating of only few event/premium squads
Maximises use of ingame assets (flakpanzer 1/72-K GAZ for example) and making them relevant vs needing to code new content.
The current concept would make the few BR1 AA trucks + scout cars carriers of flexible rider team, able to build flank spawns, able to scout vehicles/emplacements for longer (act like scout team).
Sdkfz234/2 and Daimler Mk2 is not transfered to this scout/rider class since it already sees play as a fast tank.
However now AA vehicles and some of the premium armored cars gain new relevance as they can be used in higher tiers as fast assault squads/ flanking vehicles, and rapid spawn building (if engineer equipped in rider team).
-Vehicle/APC spawn slots are not taken up, which frees up tank players.
-Heavier scout cars/ AA vehicles now make more sense as a support class vs seeing little play (since Tank is always preferable to a Flak vehicle tactically)
-Rider slot becomes a BR1 squad for starting players (since M13, AB41 scout car and Ta-Se AA are moved there), and gives Br1 starting players ability to play a light scout/AA or a plane/tank in designated tank slot. This should offer some flexibility to starting players. As a player I feel I would deff use a 2-4 man armored car/AA truck squad in even high tier for their flexibility. Ie I think the change would very much benefit the vehicles, and the class in general.
Ie this change would make me want to buy the M8 & BA-11 armored car as a player; since the crew now is a flexible scout team, vs being subpar tank compared to the other vehicles in the tier. I would benefit as a player, Darkflow would benefit with my money, I dont think game balance is disturbed by this & it retains flavor (scout cars can do scout things!). I generally go by this instinct: if its a good game idea its good value for a paying player but u also dont mind your opponent having this.
I personally really like this idea, as I really want to see scout cars and such added in a meaningful way. The main criticism I have seen for this kind of idea is that it promotes too many players being in vehicles, as players can now sit in tanks, planes, APCs, AND armored cars. The only solution I can determine is to limit the availability of this type of squad to 1 at a time.
Im not opposed to idea but would like to see it in practice. 1 scout car, 1 AA, 2 tanks might be a bit much on some maps? Being light small vehicles on the other hand (& still motorcycles being avail) hasnt affected game balance too far. Having more riders/crew on these helps with the need more infantry problem.
Basically prob would want to see it in practice first, 1-2 slots is prob the sweet spot I agree
Yep jeeps are a big add but also AA vehicles/ scout cars have a home as well. Basically a motorized cavalry slot!
Early war stuff like flak tanks also now fit here perfectly, or spicy armored cars.
Thinking here of your starterpack idea of say Staghound AA vehicle or Italian AS-42
High tier would be spicy
T18E2 Hv scout car
Whirblewind AA now makes sense
I could see that; id prob raise their BR to 3, since the cannon is actually strong if equipped with a flexible rider crew; they would then make more sense as actual scouts (which makes sense) vs currently fast wheeled tanks
Edit, now that I think about it, it suggests that at large this idea is sound. 234/2 is complained about as unrealistic at BR2 where its oppressive as a tank, not as a scout, but in this model it actually fits fine as a scout vehicle at mid tier
I don’t think SPAAG and scout car should be able to build rally point. There are already multiple high mobility squad that can spawn troops with their vehicle or build rally point like the paratrooper, rider squad and APC.
I don’t know if there is a limit to the maximum number of rider on the field. The maximum number of player is 10, 2 could be using tanks, 2 in planes and at least 1 is using the proposed new rider class, so there would be at least 5 or more people in a vehicle. If APC was considered then more than half of the team would be using vehicle.
The other thing why I think it’s not good to merge riders, SPAAG, and scout car together with the above proposal is that it limit the future of the mentioned vehicle types. Darkflow would probably be more hesitant to include SPAAG and/or scout car that are relatively better than the current ones as the game will be more vehicle focused.
I like your proposal of scout cars having longer mark on the enemy tank.
Say that there were more players or a change in limits of what squads can be taken into to battle or what vehicles that can be on the battlefield? Would that be better?
Also why is more rally points worse? People complain already of not enough.
I don’t know, but at the current state of the game I’m never put into a 10v10 match. If you mean increasing the number of concurrent players to more than 10 on each side then the matchmaker would need to spend more time looking for real players or fill the match with more bots. In my opinion it could lead to even more player frustration.
It’s not about more rally points being bad it’s about why armoured car and SPAAG need to be able to build rally, what are their down side?
The upside of the rider squad is that they are able to cover large distance faster than the engineer and set up rally point, the downside being they are unprotected from small arms fire.
What was proposed is encroaching on the niche of the APC. The upside for the APC is that it have high mobility, can spawn squads closer than a rally point to an object; the down side is it’s open top or have no armour and it spawn squads 3 times slower than rally point.
SPAAG is not useless, it’s an AA gun that can move and suppress infantry. Its’ AP rounds have limited anti-tank capability within it’s BR bracket.
Going back to my original question of what would be the down side of the proposed armoured car relative to rider and APC? There is none.
It is better than the APC in every way, people will stop bringing out APC in favor of the armoured car, and SPAAG over the engineer squad. It’s healthy as it is now, that being each of these vehicle class have their own niche to fulfill, in my opinion.
Re vehicle limits; I was concerned about triple spam of 251/9 75mm cannon APCs on German side (2x88mm + 3x75mm) would be insane in my opinion; but in game I havent seen any issues tbh (im not a german main either). I think keeping it at 2 slots is fine for starters.
Re rally points; currently rider class can already build rallies. We’ve seen zero abuse. Motorized cavalry is supposed to flank. in game that means driving to edge of map, but nothing happens at this point; edge/ flank rallies represent ingame exploitation of a flank attack (ie reinforcements).
I have no issue with APCs stealing job of rally points, so I dont think anyone honestly would complain about Rider scout cars building rallies; its hard enough to get players to do this as currently stands.
It is better than the APC in every way, people will stop bringing out APC in favor of the armoured car
This likely wont happen; playerbase is just increadibly lazy and 3 APCs avail on map always beats 2 /1 riders. The day we see everyone using riders to build rally points is the day im a happy man.
and SPAAG over the engineer squad.
The proposal im writing up gives new abilities to engineers; so its an integrated change; I doubt engineers are going anywhere.
Not exactly a full upgrade, they each have their benefits and drawbacks. I disagree that what you think will happen is going to happen.
Also SPAA doesn’t suppress that well and sucks for as long as that cool down is as bad as it is.
