Crew-served weapons

Suggestions
1

(OBT is good and all but we have to move forward, don’t we :smiley:)

“A crew-served weapon is any weapon system that is issued to a crew of two or more individuals performing the same or separate tasks to run at maximum operational efficiency […]” - Wikipedia

Enlisted has opportunity to properly represent crew-served weapons without necessity of cooperating with other players. Each player has up to 4-8 bots that can serve role of a crew of different weapons, similarly to the tank crew.
My idea is to allow certain weapons to have benefits for being crewd by 2 or more persons. It would be still possible to use it by one person, but it won’t be as efficient and may block some functions.

  • AT guns
    size0-full
    Only the player operates the gun - reload is slow and during it you have animation of loading the gun so you can’t observe the sights.
    Player and 1-2 bots - quicker reload and no sight obstruction, two bots reload faster than one, maybe faster turning
    Player and 3+ bots - AT gun gains ability to move (credit to @ErikaKalkbrenner). After pressing a button, crew prepares the gun to be moved, same to deploy.
    It may make for an interesting balancing mechanic - heavier AT guns move slower or even are stationary (for example 8,8 cm Flak 18) but have more punch, while light AT guns are able to relocate quickly and maybe require less crew to move.
    AT guns will become essentially vehicles with option to deploy to shot.
    Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-299-1831-26,_Nordfrankreich,_Soldaten_mit_Geschütz

    4b2e69c128b4654950d10e7dfaaac8e5
    4b2e69c128b4654950d10e7dfaaac8e51283×822 215 KB

  • AA guns
    Player and 1-2 bots - faster reload and turning speed.

    Bofors-aa-gun-algeria
    Bofors-aa-gun-algeria3816×2981 4.92 MB

    169274362_2087260341416329_7865727799885778963_n (Or whole squad of assistants :smiley:)

  • Mortars
    Take note: I assumed that this idea will be implemented after mortars are fixed / balanced.
    Player and one bot - higher rof, maybe more ammo.

    American_mortar_crew_in_action_near_the_Rhine,_1945
    American_mortar_crew_in_action_near_the_Rhine,_19452735×2147 996 KB

    But, there is more.
    Russians used 120mm mortars that are too heavy to be carried by one person. They may be implemented into the game.
    It would be special engineers’ building awalable only for mortar squad. It would be used similarly to AT guns I described above. (This is rough idea so don’t ask me how it would differ from a regular mortar.)
    acd38896a7c422794b204595a8d20a7e
    acd38896a7c422794b204595a8d20a7e1024×681 163 KB

    (It’s modern french 120mm but you get the point)
    Germans may get 7.5cm le.IG 18 as equivalent of russian 120mm mortar.
    Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-219-0594-33,_Russland-Mitte-Süd,_Infanteriegeschütz

  • AT rifles and rocket launcers
    AT rifles may have one bot as assistant to increase reload speed, but to be honest I don’t think it makes sense to add him at all. As far as I know, “assistant” was meant to protect the AT guy because he didn’t have a rifle. So it seems pointless.
    i
    Rocket lounchers. Player and one bot - faster reload and more ammo.
    origin d4906034397f69f0272ad37e671c41cc--german-soldier-bag-pack

  • LMGs
    Assistant can be “added” only if gun is bipoded, he will improve reload speed, jam removal speed (if MGs get this mechanic), barrel change speed and increase amount of total ammo.
    F6ybKIJ-ZzgHlww4bxym1luTZR50zFIPn3gIuJ-wDDA
    Maybe also option to use your assistant as an MG mount, although it may be too crazy to bother.

    Machine_gun_squad_MG34
    Machine_gun_squad_MG342880×1866 2.33 MB

    However this time I managed to complicate it a bit more in case of german MGs (as far as I know only they had this feature):
    Ability to change patronentrommel for 250 rounds belt (or smaller one for the sake of balance) if you have an assistant (of course you can also do the opposite). If you would like to move with longer belt, it would cause more jams because of dirt and slow you down considerably. Equipping a special item (ammo box for example) may be required to use this option so you have to trade it for sth (but then I would make it so that losing soldier with it, doesn’t block this option as bots tend to die stupidly). Or instead of being an item it may be squad upgrade.
    As interface to use this mechanic I would suggest this: Leftover ammunition.
    MG 34 in France 1944

  • MMGs / GPMGs
    Assistant would have a tripod instead of a backpack or 2nd weapon slot (not sure how to deal with this part). With usage of command menu, it would be possible to order to deploy tripod like in case of engineers’ buildings (although it may be too slow to execute). Then press F to mount your gunner’s MG and weapon is ready to use, press F to dismount.
    Assistant would work just like in MG nest, when the gun is on the mount.
    Problem is when guy with mount dies. Like I stated in LMG part: bots tend to die stupidly, so similarly to LMG ammo box: don’t block mount when soldier with it dies, or make it a squad upgrade.

  • MG nests
    (Currently we don’t have access to them but I’ll ignore that fact for now.)

    e1f4919906fc195dd82dceddb0e65254
    e1f4919906fc195dd82dceddb0e652541600×1058 169 KB

    I think we can give up on a commander as he wouldn’t be useful in a gameplay.
    One bot as assistant - faster reload, faster jam removal, faster barrel change, more total ammo (if MG nests will have this feature)
    51ROeO0Ai3L.AC_SX466

Obvious downside of all those options is that enemy may score 2+ kills instead of one.
I would suggest regular troopers as assistants. They are worthless as a class so adding new functionality can only benefit them.
Option to toggle assistants on and off would be in the command circle.

Ps.
I probably overdesigned it, again :upside_down_face:

Pps.
Yes, 50% of this post is about MGs :stuck_out_tongue:

35 Likes
2

Additional idea:

  • Gulaschkanone
    If crewed, it provides 200l of hot meal and 90l of coffee. Unlike malnourished soldiers of the enemy, your guys would have much more energy to fight.
    200px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_201-MA34-370-91-21,_Hayingen,_Soldaten_an_Feldküche
    In case of contact with the enemy, it can be transformed into a canon. Special ammunition - GP (Gulasch Patrone) would be used to fight the enemy.
    maxresdefault (1)
    maxresdefault (1)1280×720 249 KB
    Here, prepared to combat the enemy
    Unfortunately this item might be slightly OP, so I would reconsider implementing it.
9 Likes
3

Nice topic and great idea. :+1:

1 Like
4

Please no to the food debuffs. This aint an RPG. Other than that it sounded like a decent suggestion when i skimmed it.

1 Like
5

But you are ok with gulasch patrone?

Ps.
This whole “gulashkanone” is joke.

6

i like the idea, but dont really find any reason to add asistants to the mmg/lmg/AT(rifle) soldiers.

7

I said that they are useless.

Why? Reload time, jam removal time, more ammo those are some really good benefits.
And how would MMG without guy carrying mount work?

8

I really like the idea of assistants for gunners and i fully agree on streamlining it so that theyre just troopers instead of an extra class.

Tripods are also something id love, but id say have the tripods be an engineer exclusive construction; it would better represent the extra crewman needed to carry the tripod on top of everything else and it also means that its placement as a static position can be worked into an engineers fortifications more organically (like the MG nest used to). It also eliminates the need for another bit of kit the bots will just loose along the way.

9

Then it would have to be with mounted MG from the get go. Otherwise you would have to have gunner in your engineer squad, or you would have only useless steel pipes that do nothing on their own.

10

Well yeah, the tripod as an equipable item for deployment would be equally useless if you didn’t have a gunner in the squad wouldn’t it?

The way I see it there’s nothing wrong with bundling it in as something extra the engineer can do, them having synergy with a gunner crew is a bonus not a negative. Its situational yes, but couldnt you say the same for hedgehogs? ammo crates? Its there if you have a gunner crew that needs it, if not he can always go build something else. If youre worried about it cluttering up the build menu have it hidden when a gunner isnt in the squad, AT and AA guns are already conditional structures so the game could support it.

11

Well, as MG nest was pernamently removed then it may be a solution.

Ammo crates are never situational. Ammo is always needed :upside_down_face:

12

I was referring more to placing them somewhere people will actually find and use them, nonetheless very true lol

13

I would love a dedicated crew-served weapon squad. Kind of like a slightly weaker vehicle squad that uses an infantry slot. Could potentially replace the current mortar squad in the game if a mortar is added as a crew-served weapon.

14

I like the ideas you’ve mentioned above. I have no idea how it would be in terms of balance, but I leave that up to the devs to figure out. In general, the idea of these weapons becoming crew served is great. It would add complexity, detail and realism to the game.

1 Like
15

Fully support, signing the petition!

16

I think this is an extremely important issue. Just have them pose behind the cannon. As long as we don’t have squad members starting strange dances around the cannon, that’s all we need!

2 Likes
17

This topic gets my support, provided that it’s true that different soldiers can operate the AA guns at different speeds. If that AA gun is basically stuck to a fixed speed, that there’s a speed it can go at and cannot go faster, then if it’s already at that maximum speed in the game then bots should not be able to make it go faster. Or, if it’s operated by hand and more people or bigger/stronger people can operate it faster than one person alone or than smaller/weaker people, then yeah, adding bots to the other seats for smoother operation sounds dope.

1 Like
18

As far as I know, these AA guns were mostly hand (or pedal) cranked for traverse and elevation, so it should be okay to have bots operate it, and have it go faster with a larger crew.

19

If so. I simply think it’s important to keep realism in mind. It IS a cool concept, don’t get me wrong, but if it goes against reality then I tend to shy away from it, even if it’d technically make the game more fun.

20

They were crew served weapons for sure, so making the entire squad operate it, would not go against realism. However, I don’t exactly know what was the role of each crew member, and who was in charge of operating traverse and elevatio (the gunner or osomeone else). Reloading was performed by other members of the crew for sure.