Definitive Rider class improvement 2.0 aka additional and much needed improvements for the rider class. ( IMO )

[ErikaKalkbrenner]

so…

TL;DR

my intentions with this one are to tackle the following issues into one class:

• make riders more viable in general
• move AAs away from tank slots
• introduce iconic ww2 vehicles ( sdkfz 222s, willy’s jeeps, opel blitzes, kubelwagens, schwimmwagens, m3a1 scout cars, ba 64s etc etc )
• more support role vehicles
• slightly improve bikes as a whole

anyway,

after the new thread,

Rider class improvements

[image] In the “Tigers of Burma” update, along with the new motorcycles in the Soviet and Japanese tech trees, you’ll also find a number of changes that will make both old and new Rider squads a useful and important part of the battles! Squad Expansion and easier leveling Currently, the unlockable Rider squads of the USA and Germany consist of only 2 soldiers. Moreover, you have to earn a considerable amount of squad experience with them to progress through their upgrade branches. With the u…

riders were slightly improved.

which i’m very glad after many years, we got something.

( as a reminder, bikes for the missing factions (USSR & Japan), less xp requirement, better mobility and a third member to free to play bikes )

but in all honesty. i think that’s half of what they actually needed. but there’s still the other half part to do. in order to make them even more appealing…
and i’ll explain why.

i won’t lie. that can be quite alot of work. but i do think it’s necessary, and can provide alot for players and the company.

i’ll start by saying that, i’m a huge fan of bikes. you may call me biased.
but, i do own all ( except the british premium bike ) and are fully upgraded

which, i’m confident about what i speak as i’m pretty much an extensive user of steel horses. ( probably one of the very few )

so, the following, is yet again a suggestion for riders based on what they need, and save them while exploring other areas too.

first thing first, we’ll go from a order of things i repute really essential, to then nitpicks or mere suggestions.

more bikes variery

for example,
a bike with the field modification mg42:

or, the soviet bike with the maxim:

which can aid for example, among different br ranges.

but as well to give some variety.

make the push function ( from boat ) also work on bikes:

Reason: whenever i play low br, i see lots of bike upside down.
and i must admit, every once in a while, when in a hurry, the bike can be flipped involuntary. and considering that the bike is actually the most valuable asset of the rider, it would be great to get this feature. so that you may unflip bikes whenever possible. opposed as ditching them.

add medics in the squad tree or medkits attached to the bike

first one, is self explanatory. the second one, better explained, and full credit to @Never_Flaccid in his/her thread: Make the motorbike give out medpacks as well as ammo

reason being, i see the riders being able to fill two roles based on players decisions.

either small mobile resupply, or shock troops to harass enemies from the rear.
both valid tactics.

Implement Rider type II ( and army infantry vehicles )

so, the idea behind rider II, is to implement long awaited and community asked ground vehicles.
those will start from jeeps/car, can improve to logistical trucks and improve to fully sized weaponized armored vehicles. and if they prefer instead, use AA

example, germany will start with a kubelwagen, upgrades to an opel blitz, then a sdkfz 6/2 (AA) and then upgrade/unlock to an sdkfz 222.
bonus, event/premium: schwimmwagen, sdkfz 8 rad, 251 piooner halftrack etc etc.

hell, even italian things.
since, they mostly fit this class as well ( as-42s, autoblindo, fiat truck etc etc )

or, another example, ussr.

they will start with the Gaz car, upgrade to a t-20 komsomolets, then a Gaz-AA quad truck, and upgrade further to ba 64s

or, allies case.

willy jeep, prestone truck, move the m16 from tanker, to rider type II and get access to the m3a1 scout car.

premium can be, any british equivalent, such as the q ford truck, the humber, the AEC/staghound AA etc etc.

AS AA HAVE NO PLACE IN TANK SPOTS.

as it goes for limitation regarding active vehicles, it can either have no limitations ( similar to current bikes ) or, like acps. no more than 2 active rider II per side. while still being separated from tank, apc or airplanes pool. they will be their own thing. after all, not everyone will run with these. so clutter i don’t think will be a major issue. while still not affecting other classes.

using what we have, to innovate them and add more additions for this game.
as some people prefer to have more infantry based squads, opposed as airplanes / tanks.

ideally, it would be great to get a jack of all trades, or some decisions between being able to carry ammo medpack, and replenish engineer resourches from (some of) them.

so players can decide wheter making it an effective anti infantry vehicle and hararss the enemy, or, go full on “logistic” / supportive approach to the team.

being able to shut off and on the engine

this pretty much goes for all vehicles, as it can better used for ambush.

but especially for bikes. bikes are the most loudest vehicle in this game.

so, perhaps with an animation of 2 to 3 seconds ( could be just a wheel like when exiting the vehicle, nothing too fancy or complex ) and additional 2 to 3 seconds to start the engine back.

let the driver be able to use sidearms when stationary

perhaps at the cost of needing an animation to get in, and out / drawn out the weapon. so, when the driver is in that state, he cannot drive but he can defend him self. opposed as having to switch to the gunner seat

would be great to combine with the previous feature. whenever the bike is turned off, the driver will be able to use weapons.

to get a decent 360° cover for the vehicle.
one from the driver, and the other from the rear passenger.

Gold order bikes and ground vehicles

how come in 2 years, not a single gold order for them bikes was made.
i think it would have made bikes more popular and an incentive to get some.

not to sound entitled or have a " complex superiority ".
but i can make them, i’m sure anyone else can.

last but not least,

make bike be able to change it’s color, and apply customization to it.

more examples can be found here ( as this suggestion is quite long ):

Make Bikes Customizable

after a long time, i managed to get my hands on the rider squad. so far, i’m loving it. and suit nicely in my base tunisia line up and most likely will be there in the merge as well. but, i was disappointed to see ( or rather, not see ) any customization available. [image] therefore, Main Suggestion: Make bikes ( and eventual ground vehicles ) customizable. by; Implement customization for bikes by allowing camouflage/color selector Allow placements of decals ( so that we can cover …

but ideally, i would like and love to change color ( as the germans are being forced to use tan bikes everywhere. where they stick like a sore thumb. while still using DAK insignias everywhere )

[Josephs_Piano]

Riders are a failed experiment, just like Guerrillas, and marginal improvements don’t change that.

[Kriegerfaust007]

great as always the problem is, why would anyone bring a bike over anything in the current meta. they are fun but the only way to save the class would break the game. one bring two bike either full ai or tethered. two jeeps would extend the class but how far to br2 maybe 3. would they still be rider or mechanized calvary stepping on the apc’;s heels. but yeah they are here more customization and a go or there just rewards.

honestly there a mobile pill box which tanks do far better. riders jeep or bike are better for speed which need bigger maps. they also work better in the dessert, which is why we need a map loadout option. hell i might even try bikes if i knew i was getting some sand. but as always great post but its hard for speed to be armor on such small crowded maps. keep posting it brightens everyone’s day,

[ErikaKalkbrenner]

@Josephs_Piano

Riders are a failed experiment, just like Guerrillas, and marginal improvements don’t change that.

riders have their place.

guerillas, eh… i guess as well.

and these " marginal " ( which, you kinda are delusional to think that placing AA vehicles under a new class and generally expand their aresenal is somehow marginal. but that’s your own opinion ) improvements can do nothing but improve them.

go from the side, and destroy their tank.
secure the landing zone of paras,
scatter throug the woods and place a rally in a matter of seconds.

if they don’t apply to your playstyle, that’s different

@Kriegerfaust007

great as always

cheers.

@Kriegerfaust007

why would anyone bring a bike over anything in the current meta.

as explained above.

but to add more to it,

not everything has to be meta.

@Kriegerfaust007

they are fun but the only way to save the class would break the game.

in what ways?

please elaborate.

@Kriegerfaust007

two jeeps would extend the class but how far to br2 maybe 3. would they still be rider or mechanized calvary stepping on the apc’;s heels. but yeah they are here more customization and a go or there just rewards.

that’s a general misconception.

but no, riders are not " stepping into apcs heels ".

because, apc are essentially a mobile respawn.
which has the benefit of not making any sound when parked, and essentially get closer compared to rallies ( not in all maps, but some. )

riders on the other hand, can fill the support role or harass.
something that the apc cannot.
difference key, is speed. ( and overheat )

which i think we can take the current class, slighlty improve, to then add a second class that can hold actual weaponized vehicles, and add more members to it for high br if you, as much to the next person, would like.

because ideally, with the riders II, you have additionals member ( up to 6 ) kubelwagen or trucks can hold up to 6. in order to make the class still balanced.
or, swap it entirely for AAs without taking tanks slots.

isn’t what y’all have been asking for?

is reading overrated now days in the forum?

@Kriegerfaust007

honestly there a mobile pill box which tanks do far better. riders jeep or bike are better for speed which need bigger maps.

well no.

again, this exscuse of needing bigger maps doesn’t hold.
yes, it would be nice.
but you can do just fine without it.

the only map where clutter may pose midl inconviniences, is berlin.

but then again, has more to do with the fact that the gray area is much more restrictive than for example, stalingrad. where it has more side roads.

if you are holding W at full speed, and running into objects, i don’t think the bike is at fault there.
but i digress.

as it goes for tanks, not necessarily.
because you do find your self facing tanks that you may not be inherently able to pen with your tank ( aka, br II tanks against br III or br III with br IV / V Tanks.

also, tanks mg overheats way faster than bikes.
because bikes have no overheats.

so they are viable.
maybe not for your playstyle.

@Kriegerfaust007

hell i might even try bikes if i knew i was getting some sand. but as always great post but its hard for speed to be armor on such small crowded maps.

which it’s why i suggested to add more ground vehicles such as jeeps, trucks and AA vehicles to it.

so more people can benefit.

isnt what you guys wants?

[Kriegerfaust007]

@ErikaKalkbrenner

which it’s why i suggested to add more ground vehicles such as jeeps, trucks and AA vehicles to it.

so more people can benefit.

isnt what you guys wants?

would they still be rider, rider is a replacement for the horse, knights of the battlefield, and jeeps and truck are more like chariots which is not Calvary, but as always thanks for the speedy detailed response.

[ErikaKalkbrenner]

@Kriegerfaust007

would they still be rider, rider is a replacement for the horse, knights of the battlefield, and jeeps and truck are more like chariots which is not Calvary

well, you do bring a valid point.

but i tried to make it " historically based ".

aka, motorized infantry.
which somewhat applies, but at the same time, it doesn’t.

for example, the apcs and trucks were motorized infantry.

in enlisted, they are handled a bit different. for example, acps were mostly for offensive and defensive roles.

in enlisted, what we have, ( apcs ) are mostly for… placing rallies. and you can’t do much with them unless you have the event apcs. which gets somewhat AT capabilities.

and whole class gets ruined.

however, based on the the new improvements, aka giving 10 supplies for people to use from the bike, gives a support role aspect.

which ideally, i think this concept can be expanded and improved.
making the rider class available to fill a support or an offensive role based on players decisions.

while keeping apc riders better equipped and have a mobile rally.

whether it’s true that riders can place rallies, i think there’s still the " risk factor " that plays more into compared to the apc where it’s function is active from " birth".

that way, riders may appeal to more people since ideally, AA will be moved there, and can be improved even further with adding iconic vehicles such as sdkfz 222s, m3a1 armored cars and what not. on the other hand, apcs are more protected. but lacks engineers.

and these new riders can be pretty much dealt by any explosives or anti tank rifles.
yet, gives a fighting edge to each making them viable.

but of course. imo.

[Kriegerfaust007]

what if riders became scouts, making spotting easier/better. spotting is a rather underused mechanic. if i could get big spotter bonuses i would use a rider class. maybe instead of hitting a button just look at an enemy say three seconds than the rest of squad one second and spot/mark them.

[ErikaKalkbrenner]

eh…

i’m personally not a huge fan of that mechanic.

for what i know, we could give snipers such mechanic. or… radiomen ( for a more logical sense. )
( about the pin point accurate marks. back in the alpha and beta, those used to be like heroes and generals. where the mark was last used. and not a beacon attached to vehicles )

my intentions with this one were to tackle the following issues into one class:

• make riders (II) more viable
• move AAs away from tank slots
• introduce iconic ww2 vehicles ( sdkfz 222s, willy’s jeeps, opel blitzes, kubelwagens, schwimmwagens, m3a1 scout cars, ba 64s etc etc )
• more support role vehicles

[Kriegerfaust007]

@ErikaKalkbrenner

• make riders (II) more viable
• move AAs away from tank slots
• introduce iconic ww2 vehicles ( sdkfz 222s, willy’s jeeps, opel blitzes, kubelwagens, schwimmwagens, m3a1 scout cars, ba 64s etc etc )
• more support role vehicles

noble but one radio class is already strong enough, and in real life snipers were more a trapdoor spider, finding a position and um staying there until relieved by friendly forces or they died. look at all the times they were swatted by tanks and artillery in real life.

yeah snipers need a buff as bot snipers are weak but one class at a time. small maps mean well unarmored vehicles are easy target without indirect fire weapons, if you can see and hit me i can kill you. i guess some kind of deployable netting or camouflage but that is kind of weak and situational.

[GeneralBrus]

@Kriegerfaust007

great as always the problem is, why would anyone bring a bike over anything in the current meta.

Well as Erika said, IF the current bikers would only be for low BR - while changing the vehicle is BR dependent, the rider class could be a very cool addition.

Imagine that the Rider squads - just like tanks - would get 5 total soldiers, but only use as many as fitting for said vehicle. Then at BR5 you could get light armored scout cars with auto guns - effectively ALSO filling the role as soft AA.

[JackofSpaidz]

@ErikaKalkbrenner

add medics in the squad tree

This would help rider class be a bit more useful, definitely

@ErikaKalkbrenner

Implement Rider type II ( and army infantry vehicles )

More light vehicles! WW2 was a mechanized war, changing rider class from “2 dudes on a bike” to a more populated mechanized squad with bigger/better vehicles later on in TT would be amazing

@ErikaKalkbrenner

start from jeeps/car, can improve to logistical trucks and improve to fully sized weaponized armored vehicles. and if they prefer instead, use AA

For armed vehicles, would these count as a team APC slot? or separate vehicle slot?

Lots of great ideas to make rider class competitive

[ErikaKalkbrenner]

@Kriegerfaust007

noble but one radio class is already strong enough, and in real life snipers were more a trapdoor spider, finding a position and um staying there until relieved by friendly forces or they died. look at all the times they were swatted by tanks and artillery in real life.

can’t disagree there.

outside radioman class.
i do not think radioman is that strong. certainly a must have.
but not many people would pick them over engineers.

with that being said, as a passive ability for both could be useful.
and make the game a bit more realistic.

but maybe we are delusional.

as it goes for riders ( since, it’s the main topic and as much i like to talk about things that i like to improvements ( i blaime it on the gens ), i’d rater for this one to stick about riders. im sure more people have something to say, discuss etc )

@Kriegerfaust007

small maps mean well unarmored vehicles are easy target without indirect fire weapons

well yes, but you can return fire.

as they say, no risk, no rewards.

and if you want to travel safely, the apc may be your choice.

@Kriegerfaust007

, if you can see and hit me i can kill you. i guess some kind of deployable netting or camouflage but that is kind of weak and situational.

ah… well, ugh… to conclude the sniper topic, i’m not sure how can be improved other than this beacon ability. perhaps like bfv, where they have a personal deployable radio. and only one.
but… that’s another topic for another time.

[ErikaKalkbrenner]

@GeneralBrus

Imagine that the Rider squads - just like tanks - would get 5 total soldiers, but only use as many as fitting for said vehicle. Then at BR5 you could get light armored scout cars with auto guns - effectively ALSO filling the role as soft AA.

agreed

@JackofSpaidz

For armed vehicles, would these count as a team APC slot? or separate vehicle slot?

Lots of great ideas to make rider class competitive

i should have specified better.

my bad.

but ideally, a separate pool too. which works like the apc one, but does not take away from their nor tank " pool ".

they should be their own thing.
limited to 2. or no limits at all like default class.

after all, not everyone runs with bikes or cars/armored vehicles.

it’s more to provide a different choice.

[GeneralBrus]

@JackofSpaidz

This would help rider class be a bit more useful, definitely

ErikaKalkbrenner:

Or - just straight up add a medic box to the bike aswell

[ErikaKalkbrenner]

yes, one or the other.

for support role.

[Kriegerfaust007]

@ErikaKalkbrenner

but not many people would pick them over engineers.

i choose both, i have both in every squad and often a radio squad with of course both classes. yes its risk and reward a glass cannon but it works for me at least when i could use it. on console and it might be my controller or a glitch but can’t call arty any more. only get 3 of the old four pie options showing up. love engies and arty they really milk the score system and its fun flipping between offense and support. what if riders trucks and jeeps could movie engie structure. like aa and at guns this would add a real team work mechanic. player base is bad at this and it could leak to griefing but so can a lot of things.

[Myrm1don]

@ErikaKalkbrenner

scout cars,

do this, give me my damn AS-42 already!!!

[ErikaKalkbrenner]

it sure is feeling lonely in the editor

[Naohmcete]

also add some of the ideas I place here and the class could do a better job!: Possible Biker Rework Concept

[Kriegerfaust007]

but how far i too far