Except the T-50 that you can get with gold order to t-60 squad is immune to pretty much anything untill
lvl 39 when F2 steps in.
Theres nothing you can do across the lake to t-50 even less to t34 that decides to block the spawn road of attackers.
1- That’s only relevant from the second objective forward and OP post is talking about the first objective.
2- Planes and AT guns exist.
3- A 50mm is very well able to destroy a T-50 and a T-34, I did it before and destroyed even a KV-1 in Stalingrad with the initial Pz. III.
4- Any axis tank on the second objective across the lake is capable of doing the same damage, or even worse as the German short 75mm comes on a better all around tank than the Soviet short 76mm so Germany teams use better suited anti infantry vehicles there .
5- We have played against each other before, we both know the other is a very capable player, why the constant whining about equipment when on the end what defines the winner isn’t equipment but teamwork + skill.
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Also…
Directly, yes.
But frankly, plane, even the HS-123 in my case would be a break from the monotonous slaughter on the ground, at least for me.
With luck and RNG on my side, I may have been able to bomb the attacking T-50s and make the ground not as miserable for the allies, for a while. While strafing is not much to look at with HS-123’s 2 machineguns, BF-109s guns gave me some success, so I could’ve suppressed machinegun nests/squads a little.
Maybe it would’ve been enough for axis bots to live long enough to make it to the first point.
Well, that basically answers my question, so Thanks for responding.
I didn’t have planes. I didn’t have dedicated AT squads with engineers and AT guns unlocked, or general engineer squad.
And the one AT gunner that I had integrated into one of my squads there had PZB-38 (fully upgraded, but that’s not much). Nothing I could do against the T-50, aside from maybe immobilizing from a few shots, and maybe disabling the gun barrel with a lucky hit. Squads were pretty much instantly killed in the spawn village from machinegun fire, so it was highly unlikely that I would get close for explosive pack, or getting on top of T-50 to penetrate the turret top with PZB.
PZ 4F1… would require a lucky hit/close quarters as well.
The only more or less feasible way to damage it would be the radio operator 2’s artillery barrage, but without upgrades, the amount of calls I could make were highly limited. I also was… frustrated that I lost the RO2 almost the moment I spawned at least 1 time, in the main spawn, just leaving the building, no less.
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As a F2P I have to make some hard choices when deciding which vehicle I get in battle, I may choose the T-34 and have the upper hand on Tank vs Tank but lacking Anti Infantry capabilities compared to the T-28, or not having the flexibility something like the Il-2 gives, or the capacity to counter enemy CAS with my Yak-1…
This gets easier when playing in group and planning beforehand what each one will get in battle. Recently in Moscow I rarely get my vehicle because the objective will just fall as soon as i’m not defending it anyway.
On the first objective you can in fact flank and reach the tanks behind the trenches and detpack them, it sure isn’t easy but I have done it on some hard matches and of course you need your team to not be absolute pushovers.
What I have to say is… you sadly got unlucky with that team, find a few people who play axis Moscow and join them and everything will be easier.
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Also adding a bit to this…
Yeah, it is possible, but a really complicated affair. The Pz 3 J driver has to practically engage the KV-1 at almost a point-blank range.
Adding to it, I don’t have the Panzer 3 J either, at least, campaigns are not yet merged, anyway.
Id say it aint any better. Considering the trenches are full of defenders there is even less room for flanking which is pretty much mandatory with anything less than F2
Not for f2p players if they have chosen tank
Unless they have buffed them significantly they aint any better than pz3 with 50mm, infact ive had better results with grb even its pretty much lucky shot sniping and hoping.
And ive destroyed quite alot of T-34’s in past with just regular firearm.
Just had to kill its entire crew and wait for quite sometime and be the last one to do dmg to it.
Doesnt exactly change the subject of moscow being imbalanced to any direction.
Sure, as long as there are no t-50 or t-34.
Perhaps because its quite relevant especiatly in subject of equally skilled teams ?
Just because I can and probably you can roflstomp average enlisted player with nothing but AP mines and spade, doesnt mean its balanced.
Never had any problem doing so, some teams are harder and I have lost my pair of matches there but isn’t that difficult to flank that trench, don’t tunnel vision and look at the map to see how much open space there is.
I’m F2P, on Tunisia where all allied tanks are hot trash I played plane until I unlocked the Sherman II, it would be better to F2P to have some way of unlocking slots for sure but don’t act like it is something that turns the game unplayable, I “suffer” from the same disadvantage and I’m not complaining.
Never used the AT Gun or you just don’t know how to shoot the turret? Average wehraboo suffering from the “Shoot the Center of Mass” disease
Look last answer… And yes it does change the subject because even the short 75mm available at level 22 is capable of destroying a level 37 Soviet tank with a fairly easy shot (turret), any ayer that can’t do that just has the well known skill issue.
Sure as long as the level 22 German tanker is able to aim at the turret of the tank the Soviet player unlocks 2.664.000 XP later than the german tanker to not even have the same anti infantry capabilities.
Have played against my fair share of equally skilled teams, they never had any issue killing half my team, never had any issue destroying the T-50 or T-34. As I said, we have played against each other on a fairly balanced matches.
You just have to open your mind that sometimes we lose the match, there’s no point trying to downplay the adversary merit saying they had advantages that no logical argument can sustain.
Sure, looking from attackers spawn theres that open field at your right side.
No cover or anything, not exactly a good place to flank with tank.
At left nexto road theres more cover but ~10/10 times atleast one enemy tank is guarding that.
Its just a fact, cant have plane & tank simultaneously as f2p player.
If you chose anything below F2 as tank, you aint doing much else except getting your ass handed to you if theres t-50 / 34
Ah the classic, just aim to pixel.
Yeah, totally balanced that one has to aim for tiny pixel while other obliterates with hit to any part of tank.
As above said, one has to aim for tiny pixel while other kills with hit to any part.
75 short is prime example of how broken the idea is as the trajectory is curved as fk making the pixel aiming quite impossible at certain ranges.
While again, the opposite team just points and clicks at your pz4E or what ever you have and you are dead.
Sure its skill issue in sense of another actually requires skill while the other doesnt.
Since theres no APHE and post-pen dmg is broken, best you can do against T-50 is killing the crew inside turret.
And then what ? Driver is entirely immune to your gun, he can merely just wait till you shoot again → switch to gunner → kill you with 1 hit.
For some odd reason I feel like we have quite different view of skilled enemy.
Do I win or lose is entirely irrelevant to subject of poorly balanced moscow.
One side is required to aim to tiny pixels while other isnt.
One side has flying tank with point & click rockets, while the other side is required to learn to use bombs.
And so on. Did you win someone or lose doesnt change these facts to anywhere which highly favors the soviets.
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Level 29 vehicle vs Level 22 vehicle
Look how much space there is between a penetrating shot and a non penetrating one…
Now, Level 29 vehicle vs Level 37 vehicle
Clear wide areas where a shot can pen, but you call them pixels…
Come on, you’re clowning yourself here man
T-34 needs to take cover so they can’t shoot the hull, but the turret is very hard to penetrate even with KT.
Edit: even T-70 can pen the Panzer IV turret though. So I still believe that the T-34 is superior.
Funny as I did not get penetration with pz3J from cheeks and even If actually did, not enough internal damage to take out the tank.
Which pretty much seems to be same as with you.
And here we have T-50 from point blank range.
Did penetrate no question about that but yet again no internal damage to take out tank frontally.
But yeah you got point here, why aim to pixels from long range.
When you can clearly just drive infront of T34 / 50 just like you demonstrated in tutorial.
its balanced
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Thing is, T-34 and T-50s are armored from, pretty much all the sides. And the weakspots in the front aren’t exactly easy to see either.
And if the tanker is smart enough, he/she usually angles the tank in a way, that it’s basically near-impossible to penetrate even with superior weapons.
German panzers are more vulnerable in general, but especially from the sides. 30 mm of unangled armor isn’t a challenge for 76 mms (Maybe the T-28 can be the sole exception), or even the 45 mm. In that Beloe lake battle, I got immobilized by 45mm, and got set on fire. Jumping out, a strafing IL-2 ended the exposed crew as well.
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All those Axis mains complaining about a lower level vehicle not being a perfect counter to a higher level vehicle while I’ve yet to see a single post of a Ally main complaining the IS-2 is crap to counter KT on Berlin…
It appears like some people just want their wunderwaffen to play for them it seems.
I have a challenge for our wehraboo friends, spawn the T-50 and try to destroy a Pz. IV at long range…
As I demonstrated before you have to hunt pixels way more than the Pz. III J has to get penetration, it is important to remember that the easier penetrative shots from the T-50 on the Pz.4 lower front plate kill mobility but don’t kill a single crew member while the turret shot of the Pz.3 Is a guaranteed gunner kill and a lucky commander kill…
quite irrelevant to subject of moscow dont you think ?
Yea, imagine some people would like to have fair chance of fight ? What a douchebags.
not exactly a long range but seems to do better than IV from side.
just use plane
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I destroyed 5 Panzer IV in Stalingrad using the T-70, (both are armed with 45 mm anti-tank gun M1932)
Easiest tank duel I had, because German tanks under Panther are glass cannons.
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It’s not really about the level, but rather the armament of the guns.
For example, the starting vehicles in Moscow, the T-60 and Panzer 2 are quite comparable. Both are fairly well armored from the front (especially T-60), so naturally, they’d need to flank to defeat their opponent.
Now, going up however, things start to go a bit differently:
German panzers 3 B-E have the same armament (37 mm). F and J gets 50 mm (shorter, and consequently weaker in penetration than the J1, L and M series).
Soviets get T-26, BT-…5? and T-50. All of them have the same 45 mm gun. Which can defeat all the panzer 3s (save for perhaps L and M series, which are either in other campaigns, not in game, but otherwise present in warthunder);
And all the panzer 4s (aside from G, H and J - as these have the turret’s front armor strengthened to 50 mms and front hull armor to 80 mms. They still are vulnerable to flanking, however).
Now, is it obvious? The T-26, while being a so low tier tank, CAN threaten even the higher tier enemy vehicle. T-26 is obviously a glass cannon with it’s laughable armor, but the main thing is - it can.
The little tankette that could. Give it a skilled tanker and it can work wonders for the team.
Meanwhile the poor sods, panzers 3 B and E have basically no chance to damage the T-50. They can damage the T-28, but they similarly have no chance against T-34.
Since T-50 has the same gun as T-26, I could perhaps spend some time unlocking the T-26. And fiddle around with it in practice map.
So, how long of a range? 500 meters? How angled should it be?
From the sides and rear it’s going to be a piece of cake. From the front, I’ll admit, there can be some issues.
Images are rather weird - we’re probably better off showing either armor indicator in garage in enlisted, or even warthunder.
Depends on the side (from the one firing at it) - left one should wound or eliminate the loader (if the tank has one), right one should wound or eliminate the gunner.
P.S. Actually, hang on - I remember there is a BT-5 in the practice map. And I think any faction can try to man it. So that means, I can test this without even switching to the soviet side.
The only issue I noticed is that it wouldn’t reload at the reload point, but I suppose quitting and trying again can help in this regard.
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Okay, it’s done with BT-7 in the practice range. A slight error (not BT-5) on my part.
Basically I decided to use the sniper team, since it fits the required crew count of 3.
They also have sniper rifles, which can double as binoculars. I also found a visual bug related to this on the range, but more on that later.
So the first thing we want to do, is to capture that vehicle, so that we wouldn’t have to walk all the way.
I didn’t manage to take the screenshot with whole map here, but we’re just traveling to the range anyway.
And we’ve arrived. 3 tanks which can be tested. For stuart, we’d need a 4th crewman for max capacity, but we’re not testing it this time.
As said earlier, the BT-7 has the same gun found on the T-26 and T-50 (and T-70 from Stalingrad campaign as well).
And we’re inside. 94 rounds should be enough for whatever testing we want to conduct.
Funnily enough, the commander (slot 3) can view around. Later I’ll switch the crewmates so that I could use the sniper rifle.
After travelling through that, we get to the relevant part.
Here would be… a rough way to see the distance…
And we are ready to fire.
As You can see, it took 4 shots to take the Panzer 4 F2 out. So, it’s not really an issue at the long range when it is turned sideways.
Obviously, a longer-range target is also present. Let’s try to take this one out as well.
Range is quite significant…
Here is this annoying visual bug that I’ve found. I guess holding breath with sniper rifle messed this up.
A single shot was all it took to take out the Panzer 4 F2.
Here’s the confirmation via the sniper sights…
Now let’s try closer but from the front, slightly angled. That visual bug still persists…
89-83=6 shots spent to destroy the tank. It probably would’ve taken 3-5 to take out all the crew, if present.
Confirmation via the sniper sights.
So, that basically concludes the testing.
Do You @Comunistinha still think that both sides are perfectly balanced as all things should be, and that “wehraboos” are just talking nonsense? In this case, at least?
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Hey, congrats for the initiative, but I should have left clear a frontal engagement, is the only kind of engagement that weakspots matter anyway.
With sideshots even the Pz. 2 and T-60 can challenge the level 39 tanks of both factions, damn, when the quadflak was still around the T-34 could be destroyed by it.
I can even point you where to aim to have penetration, but it won’t be a easy matter like some people like to say, lower front plate to kill mobility and some places of the turret (not all as shown on the image I posted before), having played with the T-50 unless it gets a sideshot you have to crewsnipe (just like the other guy said he had to do against T-34).
Over anything, T-50 isn’t immune to the 50mm gun of it’s same level rival on the axis side the Pz. 3J, even more, the level 22 Pz. 4 don’t even need to aim because it’s short 75mm can go through the center of mass of the T-50 unless.
The 37mm guns sure are lackluster but they can still pen the turret cheeks of both T-50 and T-34, it is difficult? OF COURSE, the T-34 is the late unlock of the Soviet faction, fighting against it with anything other than the same level unlock on the axis side IS SUPPOSED TO be difficult, as a F2P there was several occasions where even having played since OBT I was one or two days late to unlock the late level gear and I had some fierce fights against higher level stuff on Moscow, with time we adapt and overcome until we unlock our high level gear and everything is fine again.
To exemplify more, on the Berlin campaign the late game unlock of the axis is the KT and the early unlock of the soviets the T-34/85. Is a fair engagement between the two? Of course not, it isn’t supposed to be fair, the player that grinded the late game unlocks deserve to have more powerful gear, does that however gets on the way of a skilled T-34/85 player destroying the KT? Nope, I did it, frontal, long range, later I edit this post with the screenshot.
That’s what I want that the axis mains here understand, level by level both factions have fairly equal gear with the SMGs being the Soviet advantage and LMGs the axis advantage, two experienced player on a match against each other have all the tools to defeat each other with no advantages to each side.
Now to explain what I mean by “wehraboo”, well, first, isn’t aimed at you… yet, honestly it is wishful thinking, the real word is another that have more weight and meaning to it. We have this class of player on this forum that nothing is good for Germany and everything is good for the allies, no rational, logical explanation, can convince them otherwise, a few days ago there was this thread of one saying he was destroyed on his Tiger by a Jumbo 76 on Normandy, notice that such vehicle isn’t on the game yet, claimed that none of his shots penetrated the enemy but he was oneshot by his foe, or those threads saying that Normandy axis is underpowered when until 2-3 months ago they dominated the campaign that pop everyday on the forum because allied planes can destroy their wunderwaffen, now show any Allied main complaining that the Tiger and Panther are “impossible” to pen with a Jumbo or a M4A2, or IS-2 player saying that the shell is behaving weird not being able to pen places they should on the Panthers and Tigers and the explosive mass of the shell is underwhelming too. Almost no experienced ally main does that because we don’t have the wunderwaffen myth pushed on our heads that our equipment is infallible and shouldn’t have a counter, most are very aware of the allied equipment strength and weaknesses and just suck it up when a skilled axis player outplays us.
To finish this, you’re low level on the oldest campaign of the game, people with stronger equipment will appear the entire time because basically every veteran player has grinded at least one of the sides on this campaign, I experienced this when I went to grind Tunisia, I knew the early British tanks are meat to Pz. 3 and Pz. 4, what I did? Skipped all tanks and played planes until I unlocked a equally strong tank, the Sherman II, we that are F2P have to do those fucked up choices and sometimes even act against our fun (I hated playing planes, to this day with 3000 Moscow matches I didn’t fully upgraded a single plane squad there).
Anyway, don’t worry about fighting T-34 for long, with the merge and BR system it will be a rare sighting against the lower level Pz. 3’s.
I’m being the most honest possible with YOU specially because the other guy is a old joke on this forum with his “axis suffer” rants and I plus several others here don’t take him seriously anymore.
which was fixed rather fast.
The crew in turret is indeed in danger, driver is not.
At somewhat short range the iv E was capable to destroy both t34 / 50 with one hit to turret.
At perfect angle, even slight differency in angle and it was ricochet.
So yes, if you somehow manage to “flanK” t-34 / 50 frontally with ivE at range of ~50 ? ~100?m you have a chance to 1 hit kill.
Didnt even bother to try.
edit; had to try.
Yes you can actually destroy t50/34 from point blank range from side.
It took anything between 5-11 hits above the 2nd roadwheel at perfect angle to destroy t-34.
Again slightest angle and it did not pen.
T-50 was bit easier it took only 3 hits from point blank range from side.
Both were immune frontally.
Except like said here, the other faction has to aim for weakspots while other faction is one big weakspot.
The fact that tanks such as pz3J lacks the APHE makes it technically impossible to kill either t-50/34
Sure you can get the crew out of turret but the driver remains safe and can rather easily reverse to safety.
Except we’re speaking of moscow here.
And every soviet 45mm cannon is threat to even late F2, capable to 1hitkill with APHE
while pz3J for example aint capable of it.
Well that sounds fair, one gets norecoil roombroom and other faction gets gun with broken bipods and shitload of other limitations such as movement speed etc.
One tank being one big weakspot, other tank having small weakspot.
Id say something is wrong with that equation.
If I recall there wasnt any other subjects on forum except “what the fk is this panther” when it first arrived to normandy.
Good times they were, just flank it bro.
:----------------------------------------------------------------DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDd
“jUst flank it”
“Aim for weakspot”
“Ppsh is bad because big mag and high rof makes you waste bullets, mp28 better”
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