Upcoming changes to select-fire rifles in Enlisted

From the latest SITREP:

As we can see, the developers are considering ways to address the dominance of 9-man squads with select-fire rifles.

The following are my personal ideas and suggestions about BR5 SFRs:

1. Introduction

For me, WW2 atmosphere, immersion and vibe is paramount.
I believe that any kind of balance should be achieved within WW2 realities and aiming at maximum possible authenticity.

2. Not Standard Issue Rifles

If we consider all weapons produced during WW2, SFRs would amount to less that 1% (mostly problematic AVTs).

Bolt actions: ~55% (over 30 million)
SMGs: ~25% (over 13 million)
Semi-autos: ~15% (over 7 million)
MGs: ~4% (over 2 million)
SFRs: ~1% (approx. 550k)

The actual combat encounter chance in WW2 was near zero.

I find it bizarre that in Enlisted, every single GI or Volkssturm kid can have a never-used-in-WW2 T20 AutoGarand or a expensive and specialized FG-42.

In real life, SFRs were not widespread in WW2 at all. The only nation to field them in notable numbers was USSR in early WW2, and even they deemed SFRs unsatisfactory, cancelled their production by 1943 in favor of bolt actions and even re-converted the remaining AVTs into SVTs.
Germany developed FG-42, but as a very expensive and specialized paratrooper universal weapon, fielding it in limited numbers.
USA never had any never-used-in-WW2 T20 AutoGarands on the frontlines
Japan never had any origami prototype Autoheis.

Don’t forget that the only faction to have SFRs in early Enlisted was USSR with AVS and AVT in Moscow in Berlin, while Germany had their specialized paratrooper FG-42 in Berlin and Normandy.
Note that Germany didn’t have their mirror in Moscow and US didn’t have their mirror in Normandy, it was by design and never seen as anomaly.
Besides, neither US, nor Japan had any SFRs at all until relatively recently recieving their morros: never-used-in-WW2 T20 AutoGarand and origami prototype Autohei.
It was an afterthought, not the original game design.

In the alpha stages of Enlisted, only a special class of soldiers called Guards Soldier, or Automatic Rifleman, was allowed to use weapons such as AVT/AVS.

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I believe removing the SFRs from Riflemen and giving access to them only to this re-introduced Automatic Rifleman class would make a lot of sense.
Either as new squads or soldiers of a new class which could be added to usual squads.

3. BR4 Oppression

Currently, the gap between BR4 and BR5 is arguably the largest one between any other neighboring BRs. Equipping BR4 equipment which is barely better than BR3, such as G-43 or SVT-40 will more often than not send such player to compete against 9-man squads equipped with full auto, one-shot kill potential, low recoil/spread weapons, and often 3 of such squads on repeat.
BR5 SFRs are a major component of BR4 being “empty” or “dead” BR.

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I believe reducing the one-hit-kill power of SFRs would make BR5 more diverse, providing more variable gameplay with SMGs, MGs and other weapons, without sacrificing efficiency of the tryhard meta of 3*9 SFRs.
It would also make the gap between BR4 and BR5 a little less enormous.

4. Unrealistic Portrayal of WW2 SFRs

There are reasons why SFRs were a technological dead end in WW2.
Despite many attempts, it was impossible to design a battle rifle form factor which would handle automatic fire with rifle cartridge.
Such weapons were always very difficult to control due to the excessive cartridge power, inflicted damage on the barrel and locking mechanisms, and as such even when deployed such as AVT, automatic fire was only allowed to be used by soldiers in emergency close quarters situations.

In the early stages of Enlisted, SFRs such as AVS and AVT did indeed have rather strong recoil/spread patterns, reflecting the more realistic portrayal of such weapons, however with time they were artificially buffed significantly, to become these proto-M16 laserbeams that they are now.

IRL:

Enlisted 2020:

I believe significantly increasing the recoil/spread of SFRs would make them feel less fake and more realistic, depicting more how they behaved in real life, forcing them to trade automatic fire for accuracy, while semi-auto rifles would instead have better accuracy but no automatic fire.

5. Don’t Take My Toys Away

While I deeply care about WW2, I understand that some other players don’t. And maybe they want to keep their favorite toys, even if they can acknowledge that it’s overpowered, ahistorical, and oppressive.
It’s also possible that such players often don’t care about anachronisms, historical WW2 context or immersion, and just want to play an FPS game with bots using the best equipment available.

For such players I believe it could make sense to introduce BR6, where all the prototype SFRs such as never-used-in-WW2 T20 AutoGarands, origami prototype Autoheis, AVTs with never-used-in-WW2 20-round magazines would go, maybe even taking FG-42-2 with them or inventing yet another fake weapon like AutoGewehr 43 (wouldn’t be the first time, we already have fake PPSh (s), fake Hino Komuro rifle, fake Hori 2017 and Su-9 from 1946).

Such BR6 would have ±0 BR matchmaking rule, meaning it would never meet BR5.
It could also have free-for-all on all maps, meaning that people who just want to shoot thr best guns and don’t care about WW2 could do it as Japanese against Germans in Stalingrad, or whatever else it may be.
No nerfs, no limitations, pure 3927 one-hit-kill paradise of fun, for those who are into that.


Poll

Since the developers are considering how to change select-fire rifles, please (multiple) choose what would you prefer:

  • Remove SFRs from Rifleman
  • Add Guards/Automatic Rifleman class/squad with access to SFRs
  • Reduce SFRs damage to not one-hit-kill
  • Increase SFRs spread/recoil to make them effective in close quarters only
  • Move SFRs to BR6 with ±0 MM and F4A
  • No changes needed
0 voters

All constructive feedback and ideas are welcome!

Cheers.

2 Likes

i don’t agree with much truth be told. rather, the premise of the suggestion.

but as in the alpha, a vanguard class is pretty much needed and could be repurpoused for SF rifles instead of Stgs / fedorov rifles ( like it used to ).

mostly for balance too. else br V gameplay is pretty much stale.
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you bought too many FG 42s / Avts / what have you?,
too bad.

there’s a sell function though.

1 Like

You mean you don’t agree SFRs need a nerf or my WW2 facts are wrong?

nah, i actually do:

Enlisted is not, and never will be historical.
nor should be.

but we’ve been through over this.

just because “we” play with historical loadouts, doesn’t mean others should.

1 Like

I mean, weapons should have some resemblance to real life, right?

As in, PPSh shoot fast, K98k shoot painful, Garand shoot ping, … AVS shoot auto but inaccurate?

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it’s a game.

they don’t have to.

even if both you and i would very much like it.

the average playerbase that play this game casually don’t care about having mil sims.
or total historical accuracy that reflects numbers

the verything you despise, actually makes enlisted unique and sort of “”“popular”“” among the niche.

personally for me, i don’t like FGs being given like candies because it devalues the actual unites that used it.
paratroopers.

i don’t like that it’s given to everyone and their mother.
it could be considered a historical nitpick and most certainly it is.

but the real problem is that… everyone can use it.

leading to a weapon being nerfed or tweaked because of the availability.

which from a game perspective, that’s bad.

the solution though, is indeed to limit it to a specific class as suggested here.

1 Like

So you want FG-42 to be more like it was IRL, an expensive and good specialized weapon in limited supply for elite units.

Which is my point that weapons should have some resemblance to how they were in real life :smiley:

And honestly, I don’t think AVS not being a laserbeam is “historical nitpick”.

It’s literally as basic as “MG-42 should have high ROF”.

Not milsim levels of accuracy, just common sense and difference between weapons.

2 Likes

Just change the nine man rifle squads to machine gun squads so I can field nine man BAR squads. :blush:

3 Likes

Honestly, at least those would at least have the sprint speed penalty and ADS tradeoff.

9*SFRs are currently all win, no lose.

3 Likes

Currently, the gap between BR4 and BR5 is arguably the largest one between any other neighboring BRs

sorry, but this is not true. i have been playing br 4 for a while and using event/bp guns/vehicles i do mostly fine. the biggest gap is between br 1 and 2. at br 1 you do not have access to apcs, lmgs, rocket launchers, semiauto rifles or any vehicle with significant HE spam capabilities.

You dont play BR1 or 2 enough then

1 Like

That’s one of the issue of BR4 : half the faction eon’t even have BR4 Tech tree rifles, the most basic weapon. Yes Allies have good BR4 event/BP/Premium rifles, but most players won’t have them or at least not enough. Soviets don’t even have TT planes at BR4 either.

BR4 is the BR with the most gaps in the TT, and it is also forced to mostly fight BR5.

SF rifles are basically the best features of every gun category combined into one without any drawbacks and you can have 9 in a single squad, more than any other kind of weapons. And BR4 has to face this constantly.

6 Likes

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Oh yeah!

2 Likes

Recoil nerf + auto off by default.

i do not play br 1. tried multiple times and it was unplayable when uptiered. unlike br 4, where i have been playing for weeks and didnt have any major issue.

none of the TT semi rifles is br4 worthy. the good ones are bp/event exclusive, which feature ~20/30 round magazines. soviets will eventually get a br 4 plane in some major update, thats not a big deal. you can simply use br 3 planes instead. japan has zero br 1 tanks worth using in the tech tree, that is a bigger issue.

gap from br 4 to 5 is huge, im not denying that, and something has to be done with the sf rifles situation. my point is that br 1 is worse. you can choose skip playing br 4 if you wish; a new player can not skip br 1.

I must say some of you are very whiny. Now hear me out there are many people who use these squads and in the end you nerf them they’ll just use Assaulters with AR’s just leave it as is Riflemen are better and to deal with than a whole mass of Assaulters coming left and right.

The best thing is to make ALL BR’s +/- 0, then institue 9 man squads to have a set amount of SFRs, nerf them for Soviets since they have body armour and test it out.

The idea of separating all prototypes into 6BR is untenable, at least because not all prototypes and small‑scale weapons are powerful enough to fight against real, high‑power weapons. I can’t imagine how I’d fight against the meta with PPK 42, Type 2, Pavesi SVT, TKB‑336, and other weapons that don’t meet the meta requirements.

Also, the guy in the video was controlling the AVS in automatic mode better than the soldier in the game video. A trained veteran (fighter 3) should be able to shoot an automatic rifle effectively in fully automatic mode, while a fighter 1 without all the skills should barely be able to control the recoil of an automatic weapon — which is exactly what you’d expect.

For me, I was expecting the StG44 to become the main rifleman weapon at BR V with the FG42 as the side option.

The recoil nerf everyone is voting for was tried before and got complained about so hard they reverted it.

If they must nerf it then they can only really tweak the damage. But that just means BR V meta becomes the same as every other BR…

And to be fair it doesn’t feel like it’s that much a problem. I don’t run riflemen squads in my BR V line up. I’m running Assaulters for the StG and flame troopers. That’s a 7 man squad and it has flamethrowers. I don’t care how many boys in your squad, you are not getting through this fire. Bam, countered.

rather than nerfing the riflemen maybe the other squads should get buffed?

2 Likes

We need to reduce damage of all SFRs to 13.2, like machine guns. This is the best solution.