Correct the fire rate of the FNAB-43

Hello bajtársak and fellow forumdwellers,
The FNAB-43 was designed during Second World War as Italy was looking for a cheaper alternative to the Beretta 38 and Beretta 38/42 submachine guns, however the FNAB was still an expensive and time consuming submachine gun to make so it did not improve Italy’s war situation but it did pioneer technology with its closed bolt and delayed blowback action, making it an unusual and under appreciated submachine gun of the era.
The FNAB-43 had two slightly different variants, the Type I and the Type II, with only about 7000 submachine guns made of both variants, it is a very rare weapon to come across nowadays.


Understanding the difference between the Type I and II

Due to the scarcity of FNAB submachine guns, no comprehensive comparative evaluation was done on the Type I and Type II so we don’t know the exact differences, though there are theories, for now I will only focus on the relevant part.

The easiest way to tell the difference between a Type I and a Type II is by inspecting the trigger guard, the Type I has a nice well machined and rounded trigger guard while the Type II has a cheaper parallelogram shaped trigger guard.

Type I

Type II
FNAB Type II

In game: we have a Type II FNAB submachine gun.
in game

Visually, the Type II is clearly a simplified design, with less complex shapes for faster production and most likely there are internal changes as well.


There are two authoritative sources on the fire rate, the older citing 400 rpm and new citing 800 rpm, most other sources quote these two or estimate a similar fire rate.

The older source: The Encyclopedia of Infantry Weapons of World War II by Ian Hogg
A well researched book that shaped WW2 weapons literally for years.
The section on the FNAB-43 is brief and there is no differentiation between the Type I and the Type II at all, however the pictured gun is a Type I, likely the gun he did his research with.

Ian Hogg


The more recent source: L.A.I. Publications focused solely on the FNAB-43.
Arnaud Lamothe, French specialist in small arms inspected and tested the FNAB-43 Type II.
Finding that the gun fires with a fire rate slightly higher than 800 rpm.
The gun is both original and inspection showed that it is in good condition thus we can rule out that the difference came from modifications or the spring loosening.

full article here

https://www.laipublications.com/en/livre/les-pistolet-mitrailleurs-italien-des-deux-guerre-mondiales-recueil-darticles/the-italian-fnab-43-submachine-gun/ 4

The modern 9mm used in the testing is actually less powerful than WW2 era 9mm M38 used by the Italian army at that time so the fire rate could have been very slightly even higher.


Conclusion
We can safely conclude that the FNAB-43 Type II we have in game has an incorrect fire rate and must be corrected to its historically accurate 800 rpm.
Though the FNAB-43 Type I could be added as a separate gun with 400 rpm fire rate.

Correct the in game FNAB-43 (type II) fire rate to 800 rpm?
  • Yes
  • No
0 voters
Increase its BR with the real fire rate?
  • Yes to BR3
  • Yes to BR4
  • No, I would like to powercreep BR2 even more.
0 voters

Thank you for your time and attention!

9 Likes

Having two FNAB-43s seems like the best method to satisfy the most ammount of people.

14 Likes

Fits BR2 just fine.
3/4 factions has a BR3 worthy smg at BR2 so hardly a powercreep situation, rather balancing.

6 Likes

With this change it feels like the danuvia 39m now

Correct the current FNAB and leave it in BR2, and the Dev’s if they so desire can create FNAB type one and add it to BR1 with it’s 400 ROF base.

We definitely need fnab 43 type 1 to fill the gap for slow firing grease gun like weapon. It could be put in br 1

1 Like

This rate was achieved using modern 9×19mm cartridges, which can have a more powerful propellant charge than the 1943 ammunition. The condition of the springs and mechanisms of a particular museum specimen also affects the rate
These tests were conducted very recently – the main data that everyone is referring to (including the figure of 837 rounds per minute) appeared in 2022.

at least read the whole suggestion before claiming something stupid.

copied form suggestion: The modern 9mm used in the testing is actually less powerful than WW2 era 9mm M38 used by the Italian army at that time so the fire rate could have been very slightly even higher.

also copied from sug: The gun is both original and inspection showed that it is in good condition thus we can rule out that the difference came from modifications or the spring loosening.

However if you do have a source of the FNAB-43 Type II specifically that conducted a firing test and found lower fire rate, let me know.

1 Like

1943–1945: The standard Pistolenpatrone 08 cartridge had a muzzle energy of around 450–480 J.
Present: The standard NATO cartridge (9×19 NATO) produces 550–620 J. The +P or +P+ variants can reach 700+ J.

thank you very much for copying over stats from wikipedia but the Italian army used M38 not German 9mm ammo.
Besides the article did not mention what 9mm ammo they used (probably civilian production which is weaker than 9x19 NATO) only that the used 9mm ammo was weaker than the original Italian ammo.

4 Likes

Try looking at what Italy had, that’s more relevant.

:finland: Finnish / :de: Axis-standard 9mm (SMG-focused)

  • Bullet: 115–124 gr FMJ
  • Muzzle velocity (SMG): ~390–410 m/s
  • Muzzle energy: ~580–660 J

Finland and others often favored higher-velocity SMG performance.

Pressure

  • WWII 9mm: ~32,000–34,000 psi (varied widely by country)
  • 9mm NATO: ~36,500 psi

Bottom line

  • Modern 9mm NATO ≈ hot WWII SMG ammo
  • Modern pistol-fired NATO > typical WWII pistol ammo
  • NATO isn’t magic—but it’s consistently at the top end of what WWII 9mm ever achieved

your comparison looks quite a bit like you are comparing energies of p08 pistol vs mp5.

As you see the chamber pressure isnt exactly that much of different.

Also, finns especiatly had different cartridge for pistols & smgs.
If I recall it was forbidden to use smg rounds in L35 pistol for example.
Something something similar, faint memory of luger as well.

Why make the FNAB boring? It is intresting to have a low firerate weapon.

Plz dont ruin it

Nice topic, I was thinking of making one myself in a little bit, but you beat me to it (and most likely did a better job than I would have). 100% agree with changing the Type 2 to it’s realistic ROF and adding the Type 1. Like @iso_seppo123 had already said, it would make for a great new BR1 SMG.

3 Likes

Did you read the full post though?

There will still be a low ROF FNAB-43 avaliable for people to use, so nothing will be ‘ruined’.

4 Likes

There are so many ways to buff/nerf a submachine gun, please don’t vote shamelessly like this just because you are afraid it would be OP.

4 Likes

I think thats a dumb idea to have to FNAB

What? You dont know my motive here

If the fire rate is increased, then plz make it a strong BRIV gun for Italians. Thats why I voted that. Because we lack Italian BRIV and all. We don’t need BRII or BRIII submachineguns.