Reconnaissance

Suggestions
1

A while back, I made a post about ideas for a mechanic of adding Recon classes.

I have since started playing Squad 44, in which many things make a lot of sense, but is a much slower pace not as arcade like game as Enlisted is. So, Enlisted should of course be Enlisted and not Squad 44. Enlisted is fun for the sort of niche it has. I greatly enjoy it. I do also see room for much improvement.

However, I still think that some of my ideas in: “Marking Mechanic Overhaul + Recon Units” did make sense for upcoming updates of Enlisted.

I think also that once marking something would be implemented along the lines of my ideas here, different marking ability for different units and equipment, then a lot of issues I find with the game would have been dealt with. So when the recon classes mechanic would be implemented, all other units in the game would have very much nerfed ability to mark enemy targets.

For example, when I fly a plane it’s extremely easy to just mark an enemy vehicle, which takes away the skill aspect needed of successfully bombing as it’s just a piece of cake.

It should not be that easy.

My idea is such that the recon class would be able to use this currently in place system of spotting, while using the right equipment for the job, such as optics already in the game and so on.

However, I’m arguing against this class having an automated marking and spotting ability for a couple of reasons:

  1. It requires no skill, if it would be automatic, also the bot would spot through some object that a player never would be able to do.

  2. There’s no counter for it, meaning, scenario appropriate camo and tactical movements would mean nothing to an automated system.

Also, as map appropriate camo is on the way to become a reality, I can see how there could be so that the purchase of camo for the vehicle would be greatly incentivized. Say if an appropriate camo for the map would be giving it greater protection against being marked from a certain distance, that reduces the ability of enemy aircraft to bomb the vehicle. I can see how that would be of great significance to a lot of tank players, especially, and thus purchasing a set of different camo’s for these scenarios would make a lot of sense to them.

I’d imagine this also being incentivizing for the developers to implement this sort of system into the game.

I’d greatly want to hear your thoughts on this?

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You have recon class already called the sniper class.

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Indeed, if you read the link to my older post, I talk about my ideas in a little more detail there.

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Also, it’s more so about many types of recon classes and what they would have in common is extended marking features that would yield score. All other classes marking abilities would also be nerfed.

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You already figured to make recon class beneficial by marking score, so why nerf other class markings?

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I describe in this post how the naked eye of a normal soldier should not be the same power as a recon trained eye with powered optics. It simply makes no sense. Also, a huge problem is how easy it is for me to endlessly kill enemy vehicles with bombing them with air. This because it’s so easy to mark a vehicle using a plane. Frankly, most of the time I don’t even see the vehicle, but the marker makes me aware of its location. Vehicle is bombed and dead. Way too easy. The tank players are suffering unfairly as a result.

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Sure, I have a great time in the air, tho. The game overall is not good for these tank players as a result, only my own game is great.

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A really fresh idea on recon.

Also, check out the original poster. Sums up very well what I also think.

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Last but not least, recon is fun. Greater team mechanics like this for gaining bonuses and benefits from different classes abilities that buff each other is great game design, and a lot of fun, I think. It’s fun and awesome. It could also open up for incentivization of different kinds of players to spend on their niche, without it being pay to win in terms of kills.

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In real life trainings, all soldiers have same eye training which is standard because when you are in a open field in ww2 with not much cover, you would look out for danger more than the enemy should like being more aware. Hell even some soldiers with poor vision, pilots, or tankers were issued a prescribed glass/PRK surgeries to make sure you can see everything very well and farther as vehicle squads. So yeah it makes perfect sense for pilots to spot a yellow or grey tank in green bushes from the top.

Why can recon squads are so important if normal solider can see far with naked eye like others in real life? Its because they are small member squad that is trained to face nature, climb, and reach certain rendezvous points to use sniper rifle for various purposes like shoot, or communicate with other squads on enemy’s movement while making sure that you were not detected by the enemy forces.

So in Enlisted what we do to help recon squad? Nothing much except fix marking system as leaf, windows or see through holes through buildings can sometimes marks on that location instead of the intended location. Like marking a tank through windows but sometimes it marks windows only not the tank. Even without marking, sniper class overall is pretty powerful if you just hide buildings that is close to greyzone area and snipe people off the spawnpoint (created some complains on it by others).

Well it sounds easy until some random german planes, smartass tankers, or AA gunners to shred you up. I do agree that airplanes are superior but only in open field maps since in bunch of city ruin maps, some building’s giant hitbox eats the bomb you drop on to unless you were too skilled to not miss a thing. That is where tank is always safe on. Recently AA guns were buffed which didn’t do anything better because only engineer squad have it.

So yeah best balance for tanks to defend themselves while not nerfing airplanes to max is to let them see the plane’s leading shot trail just like pilots and AA gunners can see so they can use commander/any mgs to shoot them down in close range. Maybe give this feature to all soldiers to use their smgs or mgs to shoot down a plane to make it balanced.

I do enjoy air too, but sometimes people are just hiding in buildings and don’t get kills much unlike tanks that gives me loads of kills from few HE shells. At first its fun but when you reach BR 2 or 3, then it will be pointless to keep going to air when you can get loads of kills from 76 or 75mm canons with HE shells.

Unlike HLL, Squad 44, or Battlefield series, Enlisted is not that realistic type ww2 game that have big maps. Its rather arcade, small, and fast paced type game which is when these type of classes are useless and redundant. So yeah its not really fun nor interesting class on its own but rather an infuriating type of squads due to camping, killing, and hard to spot them at long range. Worse is that its now a new trend of being a spawncamper that massacre the entire team from start in greyzone.

If DF decided to remove them, I would certainly agree with them to remove or nerf them to maximum as its not fun but infuriating type used by campers.

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This I call BS.

What is the purpose of dedicated reconnaissance units in real warfare, then, if everybody can just see everything already? You contradict yourself, in saying that tankers get education and health treatment to spot things further away. You also say everybody spot the same with the naked eye. Not only that, but you don’t even mention binoculars or other optics. Also, have you seen a car climb hills? An airplane for dedicated reconnaissance is weak, why have that when a fighter could just as well do as good of a recon then? Because recon does have an important role on the battlefield. To provide intel on enemy movements and locations. Absolutely essential for any army.

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Thing is that it’s easy no matter what. It’s not much more than gravity and the bomb go boom. It’s mainly easy because I so easily know where the tank is by marking it myself. Marking sees it way before and more often than I can do so myself. So I just blindly mark the ground, “oh there’s a tank down there” and tank goes boom. Marking ignores camo and concealment. It just reveals the position unfairly.

Yet, this is just a side issue, the main point is that these mechanics can make combined arms make sense and having a variety of units on the field buffs the team. Recon is one aspect I happen to focus on because I enjoy recon myself.

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The thing is that my ideas would make the useless noob sniper guy a valuable asset for the team, so nobody would have much reason to complain about their existence. The vehicles, planes and indirect weapons would like them for providing them with some valuable intel.

Spawn camping is a map design issue. Maps need to be about 3x larger. Spawns should be located in so-called “negative space” so that there’s no direct fire on that, also gray zone campers should not enjoy a view on the enemy base spawn, of course.

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I mentioned it already here:

So to simplify, they are basically people who gives headsup on enemy whereabouts and dangers and observe the locations. But since they also have sniper rifles, they can sometimes do sniping missions if its a no choice moments or as a extra important command from higher ups like for example “if you found Hitler in the old German castle while on your expedition, then make sure to kill him if you can. If not, then return immediately and report.”

Yk thats where your great sight comes into play when you are forced to use gun sights only to spot and find other tanks as hopping out with binoculars are a easy target to 1 shot tanks in combat situations. So most of the time you can’t use binoculars unless you are sure you are safe.

If you don’t include binoculars, and other sight aid then yeah you are same as recon guy as both of you guys get around same vision like humans. Did you really think that recons are eagle eyes people that can see far away with naked eye?

Nice BS here because this car with 122mm gun can climbs hills like this one

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Which is why there is barely any recon only planes in real life. There is recon planes that are actually used as fighter, bombers, or all purpose plane. Polikarov Po-2 was a bomber aircraft used as recon aircraft.

Well that is it, thats their importance on battlefield. But in enlisted, you are not fighting in a big battlefield like Battlefield series, HLL, or Squad 44. You are fighting in small map as fast paced combined arms fps games, not a real life like battlefield which is why recons are useless in these types of games.

Its not “useless noob sniper guy” its just useless class used by lazy campers that hunts from greyzone all the time or just go to edge of playzone to kill off enemy from spawn. People don’t complain on their existence because “it sucks”. They complain on how much infuriating that class is especially when campers get it, go to the tallest building in the game and farm kills there without serving any purpose of helping teams with objectives. Even if you give them that buff, it changes nothing as people don’t use much snipers in later tier because the majority move on to automatic guns for completing objectives better while snipers are left for campers who just does nothing like a rear line people are.

Well I doubt they will make it 3 times larger as its not their goal for making a solid copy like HLL, Squad 44 or Battlefield considering arcadey and fast paced game for year.

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You are just making my point for me. Dedicated Reconnaissance units makes sense, and in game they could have privileges to reflect it game play wise. Of which I have made clear.

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This is a clear, pun intended, reason why recon units are essential, because they can from comparatively greater safety be the eyes of for example the vehicle crews.

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Nope, but sharpness of eye is not the same as comprehension and cognition of what is being observed. There’s a mental process involved concerning training, experience, familiarity, knowledge that is not insignificant.

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Well for reality, ok. But for enlisted, not really as its just useless.

So you saying these recon guys are eagle eyed (nice joke ngl)? :joy:

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You underestimate the marking mechanic in this game, then.

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Well its because it is something to underestimate when you can use binoculars and look for it yourself and mark it up in small map. Even if I can’t mark, still recons are gonna stay useless because these people don’t do that job except camping here and there in enlisted