Italy as the meaning of life šŸ‡®šŸ‡¹

Iā€™ve decided to translate the thread from the Russian forum.


So enjoy.

INTRODUCTION
Good afternoon. Here will be described my vision of how to introduce a separate Italy, why, and what is needed for this, presented an example branch of development and ideas for new maps. Letā€™s start in order and with the main question. WHY IS THIS?

  1. The first and gameplay important reason is tooptimize the axis research branch. Itā€™s cluttered with Italian samples, Hungarian, Romanian. Most of which are Italian and not for no reason. On this regularly pop up complaints on the forum, players rightly noticed that the grinding for a comfortable gaming for the Soviet Union for 2 BR faster than for Germany. Needless to say, such clutter is a rudiment of the pre_merge times. The long research branch prevents new players to grind to the top weapons and slows down the already long process of grind. Splitting Germany into Germany and Italy will solve this problem. Germany will not lose too much, because the game still has few French weapons and other trophies adopted by the Wehrmacht and not only ā€¦

  2. the second reason - adding a new side of the conflict can give the game more depth, variety and interest, help enrich the game world and increase the replayability of the game. I guess thatā€™s the obvious aspect. Moving on.

  3. It may not be obvious, but the addition of Italy will attract Italians and history nerds to the game. Not many games give you the chance to play as a real Italian soldier from 39-43 or even 44-45. Plus to give proud Italians to be in the skin of great-grandfather is expensive and they will appreciate it. Who knows rumours can do in modern Italy? Maybe in a couple of years after the introduction of this side players will swear not at Chinese players, but at Italian players? In short, for the sake of hype. The main thing is that the marketers worked properly. Fresh blood is always good.

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Well, now that everyone has understood why developers and, me need Italian army, we can move on to the theoretical realization. In other words. HOW TO REALIZE First of all, some weapons will undoubtedly be cut from the axis branch. Why some? Because if (for example) the Beretta OVP could be used by Italy in a limited way, but Germany is very unlikely. Historical variants should stay. such as the MAB38, the rest should go away, leaving the research branch alone. Germany does not need Italian tanks banally because of the huge number of their own. Which is a huge scope for creativity for developers. From the players who had time to purchase italian weapons and vehicles do not take away anything, because the Italian units in some places were under the command of German commanders. So no need to take items away from the players by force. But you can give the opportunity to transfer some weapons. This will simplify the grind in the early stages of existance for the new faction. Also optimizing research branch I propose to implement not at once, and re-move Italian samples gradually, showing the player a timer until the disappearance. Thus, many players will make their transition to Italy as painless as possible for themselves.

New faction bonus. I donā€™t think thereā€™s no point in explaining it. Give a bonus of 50-100% to silver / experience, etc. at least for the first 2 weeks of existence of Italy, then reduce it to 30%, then remove completely. Also to the question of the realization of the new side: the idea of cooperative battles is flashed on the forum. This when in battle you can meet a player for both the German and Italian armies and they are in the same team. Which is historically correct. Italians have fought alongside the Germans in many places. How to realize it technically - I can not tell you. This will only come up with developers, but I can say on behalf of the player, as I would like me: The player is looking for United States. Finds himself in Tunisia, and there are 6 players - Germans with appropriate tanks, squads, etc., 4 players Italians with weapons, equipment from Italian branch. Probably need to remake the matchmaking here? I donā€™t know. btw Custom matches already have combined fights in them What about the maps? Where will these battles be? For start, we have so far 2 theaters of war, where the Italian army was historically present - Tunisia and Stalingrad. Everything is clear with Tunisia, everything is fine there. except to expand the number of maps in it. Within Stalingrad I suggest adding maps of suburbs where battles with Italian troops took place.

Spoiler

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The pilot of the Italian fighter Macchi MC202 Folgore from the 356th squadron (356 Squadriglia) in the steppes on the Eastern Front Winter 1942.
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The frozen bodies of Italian soldiers near a destroyed column of artillery tractors FIAT SPA TL37 on the road near Stalingrad In the background (far right) is an Italian Fiat 666 NM truck
Photo by reenactors.
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What about the maps? Where will these battles be?
For start, we have so far 2 theaters of war, where the Italian army was historically present - Tunisia and Stalingrad. Everything is clear with Tunisia, everything is fine there. except to expand the number of maps in it. Within Stalingrad I suggest adding maps of suburbs where battles with Italian troops took place.

About the Sicilian operation - it should be a awesome. There and landings on the beach, and shootouts on the streets, and capture\ defense of different small villages and towns and fortresses. Itā€™s supposed to be cool.

Spoiler

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This shoose of maps by BR would look as nice as possible. You might be thinking, ā€œWait. Italy will only be fight only against the US on high BRs?ā€ And Iā€™ll answer: ā€œYes. Itā€™s even more historical. The USSR found Italian troops in a very bad shape, and while fighting the Germans Italy fragmented. Italian troops in the USSR were present until 43. The remaining Italian units had auxiliary anti-guerrilla and police functionsā€. If you have a better idea on Italyā€™s theater of operations - please write in comments, I will read everything, analyze and add to the article with the author of the idea. Will it be a complete factoin? Or just a fragment of the axis? First of all, I propose to reinforce the Italian troops with the African Corps in all its greatness. Secondly, under this condition - yes, it will be a full-fledged side with its own strengths and weaknesses. A week in photoshop and the Germany branch turns into the Italy branch. Nobody asked me to do it, but I did it.

in good quality


https://psv4.userapi.com/c237231/u2000047961/docs/d3/100795fd8a50/file.png?extra=asJCSZLir5toI8Qdb6yRoWknSzuZH6cMaUlxbFZQpmKOUknEbJcTiz-B4Wicj9ZhJI_-fT3ckZlAgECk14JXx3aVaYSRfCYwCBQJEMvCR8NjoAK92h5PjrHeB6q5Re0tMY2UwdvpDb3YzvFvko8fPo3P3rY

split for easy viewing

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The strengths will be a branch of submachine guns, rifles, fighter aircraft, and even machine guns, a wide selection of APCs. Weaknesses of Italy will be a branch of sniper weapons, rifle grenade launchers (no AT charge), tanks (in the top only Rommelā€™s Tiger), possibly bombers (I am not WT player.).
Probably here in this research tree a lot of controversial points, but this is only a raw concept or prototype. And I apologize for the quality, not everywhere it is 10\10, but dragging hundreds of times the same layers Iā€™m tired of fixing and correcting everything.

About the engineering buildings I was asked to complete: here is a supposed list.
Yes, there is a German Pak for even according to the wiki: ā€œOriginally planned licensed production at OTO factories, in an amount of at least 1000 units. However, the agreement was postponed, so in March 1943, 24 finished Pak 40 guns arrived in Italy.ā€ They also used the 50mm Pak, but it wasnā€™t much better than other designs (and not as Italian)

35 Likes

This is a good thing. The longer it takes them to get to BR III and High Tier, the better they will be when they get there. The easier they adapt to the sweatfest. The better the game is for everyone (no newbs running around with 15 sniper kills in High Tier)

4 Likes

My main problem with seperating nations are the repeating equipment.
This Tech Tree is an impressive collection and all of the post is top quality, I would love to see Italian camping and more Italian equipment in general but I donā€™t see the point of seperating Italy if the TT is cluttered with equipment also available with Germany, I might as well keep playing Germany in that case.

5 Likes

We donā€™t care where to write topics! We wonā€™t give up on our ideas! Freedom for the Italian nation!
:it: :it: :it:

14 Likes

What better way to stop tech trees with repeated equipment than to separate them out into national tech trees - some better or worse populated.

Equally there is nothing stopping Gaijin/DF from setting up weapon / vehicle unclocks once per account, so basically once you unlock a weapon in one tree that is supplementing a minor power in another tree, from being automatically unlocked. The reverse would apply if you decided to start with a minor power tree ahead of a major power which was a majority equipment contributor into the broader WWII millieu.

Tech trees can be built for both major and minor axis / allied powers and they can now be specifically geared towards certain BRs, where those minor powers played a part until such time as they were either defeated pre '44 or re-enabled once the tide had turned and the allies were back in Europe - the tech trees can easily accomodate this duality.

4 Likes

What a lot of words in your post, and we only need a few words:
ā€œ- Free Italy!ā€

3 Likes

Thank you for your excellent post. You should know the amount of work you have put into this is greatly appreciated.

I fully support a separate Italian tech tree. I have been requesting that Germany-Italy and US-UK be split in various groups.

You post good reasons as well as a very well researched and thought out tree.

I can relate to wanting to play as your countrymen, in my case Australians.

Australians (along with the rest of the Commonwealth) are super easy to add, we just need our national hats and maybe country name written on the shoulder of standard British uniforms.

To return to Italy, I mention Commonwealth since the rationale is the same. Yanks want to play as Yanks, Russians want to play as Russians. So Iā€™m not sure why itā€™s such a shocking idea that people from other countries want to play as their soldiers too.

This would be very much appreciated by people, but also attract new players with less common factions and maps representing different theatres than the heavily overused D Day, Berlin and so forth.

I strongly disagree with the haters who carry on about splitting the playerbase since pre merge the playerbase already was split and as we have agreed, adding more interesting and unique content would attract more players to the game.

Having a quick look over your tech tree I like what Iā€™m seeing. I donā€™t understand how people can complain about copy paste Germany, I can barely count on 1 hand the number of German weapons in your proposed tree.
And surprise surprise historically the Italians did use some German weaponry. I really dont think its going to ruin the game having two tech trees with MG34s for example.

To add to your suggestions:

I have been advocating for a separate Italy tree that also includes the minor Axis powers, likewise a separate UK tree covers the Commonwealth and potentially some other Allied countries like Free Polish, Free Czech and the Greek Army.

Therefore if possible Id like to see a sub tree of Hungary, Romania and potentially Finland added into this tree. The number of weapons wouldnt be huge. Players would have a free default uniform to choose for either Italy, Hungary or Romania and then some more customisation options to be bought with appearance orders as usual.

Furthermore I propose the following maps/theatre ideas

Battle for Italy (you did mention Sicily), Monte Cassino, Anzio, Rome, Gustav Line are the four that spring to mind for me. Monte Cassino would allow for New Zealand and Free Polish troops as well.

Greece/Crete/Yugoslavia: This was a largely Italian campaign, later supported by the Germans. It is a theatre rarely if ever acknowledged by games and would introduce alpine warfare and other unique play features (would also see less tanks which would be a nice change).

Greece allows for Australian, New Zealand troops as well as potentially the Greek Army, likewise all the campaigns could have premium squads with British commandos and local partisans.

Crete would perhaps only need one map with a mountainous area, seaside village and German base/port. Objectives could be based on the autobiography of W.Stanley Moss (see Il Met By Moonlight)

Tobruk: We have premium Tobruk Italians already in game. This would provide much needed variety to ā€˜desertā€™ maps as well as a very famous battle and a proper urban warfare scenario for desert maps. A further opportunity to add Australians, New Zealanders and Free Polish.

El Alamein: Another famous battle and more variety for desert maps. Australian, New Zealander, South African and Indian potential Commonwealth forces can fight Italians and Germans.

Early war France: If this is added (I also want to see a whole French faction added), then Italians could fight there since Italy did do a short lived invasion of France in 1940)

5 Likes

The author of the original topic has a similar one about Britain, Iā€™m going to translate it

7 Likes

Great idea! Iā€™d love to see it.

Also, great work with this thread. Lots of good ideas :slight_smile:

7 Likes

The author of the themes really worked hard on them. Aleks_GE also did a good job on the translation

6 Likes

Well, I donā€™t speak Russian (though I do watch a lot of Stop a Douchebag on YT, lol), so please thank them from all of us over here in the EN forum!

Great work!

5 Likes

Oh okay great. Please send me a link or let me know when itā€™s up! :slight_smile:

4 Likes

Just to add tanks:

Add Panther for Italy:

Where is my lovely free L3/33 for BR 1?:
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Replace tiger H with this P43:

I would love to see FIAT 2000 here:
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Just to add the maps: We should add ww1 the ascent map just like isonzo did where all you do as German is to yeet rocks while the Italians just climb, kill and reach objectives

5 Likes

I support

2 Likes

This post is very well done but like Valkay here I dont like German equipment in TT and I want them to be minimal or premium or event frankly there are tons of alternative for them Im gonna share a few and add a few nice stuff to your awesome TT my man

For tier 1 you could have added Italian Vetterli rifles but as it stands tier 1 is perfect maybe as premium you could have added MBT 1925 and also for AT rifles you could have added Fucile Anticarro Scotti & Breda Mk.II 12.7 mm anti-tank rifle could be good replacement for polish and German anti tank

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(MBT 1925)(Bolt action)


(Fucile Anticarro Scotti( tear-gas filled 8x99mm))


(Breda Mk.II 12.7 mm anti-tank rifle)

For tier 2

1- M1918/30 was GO weapon so i dont think they gonna add it to TT and if they did add it to TT with large mag it would be BR 3 and not BR 2 like VG 1-5 any how you could have added Beretta mod. 1939 with scope which is unique and its a variant of M1918/30

Beretta mod. 1939 with scope Cal. 9mm Parabellum (9x19mm)

2- I dont like the chauchat maybe Italians used it but italians also had made tons of MGs maybe move this to premium and change it to Fiat model 1928

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3- Other than those tier 2 is perfect I love it can also add quite few stuff here ,too a few of them that I would like to see are Maefassi gas-operated conversion of the Mannlicher M.95 & scotti model x Brescia


(scotti model x Brescia)
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(Maefassi gas-operated conversion of the Mannlicher M.95)(Semi-automatic)

for tier 3 im gonna add more stuff since its mostly empty

1- lets add a few Semi-auto and change Scotti Model X and Beretta M31 since both are in game one was premium the other is GO
First I would change Scotti model X with scotti model x Brescia its virtually the same gun but with small differences and for beretta M31 i would change it to Bereta M37
File:Beretta Model 1937.jpg
(Beretta M37)
Now thats out of the way lets add 2 more semi auto to round things here up that 2 semi auto being Genovesi-Revelli self-loading rifle of 1908( Revelli-Terni) & Vetterli Semi-automatic rifle conversion

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( Vetterli Semi-automatic rifle conversion)


(Genovesi-Revelli self-loading rifle of 1908( Revelli-Terni))

2- for SMGs listen man we need more SMGs a few of them imma list here like:
Beretta Automatic Carabine, Pavesi-Revelli submachine gun, Automatic variant of model 18/30 &Extra-Light SubMachineGun Beretta
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(Pavesi-Revelli submachine gun)
Beretta Automatic Carabine, ex. O.V.P.
(Beretta Automatic Carabine)
Beretta Automatic Carabine Cal. 9mm Parabellum (9x19mm)
(Automatic variant of model 18/30)
Extra-Light SubMachineGun Beretta Cal. 9mm Parabellum (9x19mm)
(extra-Light Submachinegun Beretta)

3- LMGā€™s here are also lack luster I would change ZB-26 with connected mags and give an italian MG also gonna do the same with MG 34
for ZB26 im gonna go with SIA Mod. 1938
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(SIA Mod. 1938)
And for MG-34 imma go with FIAT 14 EXPERIMENTAL
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(FIAT 14 EXPERIMENTAL)
and lets add 2 MGs while we are at it one being Isotta Fraschini LMG the other being Breda M38


(Isotta Fraschini LMG)
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(Breda M38)

4- lastly maybe adding 60mm Lanciabombe here in tier 3/BR 3 would be best instead of Panzerfaust 60

all in all this was the most lack luster tier anyhow nice job on it though lets move on

Tier 4

1- Since we added Beretta M37 to last tier we cant have it here so what would I add instead of it well I would add ZK-391 which was trialed by Italians
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(ZK-391)

and Pevesi SVT copy is gonna be a GO for next season so we cant have it on TT maybe bring back M37 to this tier and add Terni M91 Carcano Semiauto to tier 3

2- As for SMGs all good maybe I would have added 2 more but ehh all good everything else is good here

as for tier 5

Everything is great here ,too beside Breda PGs im sure DF wont add them to techtree and having 2 SF rifles is enough for a nation anyway maybe add more SMGs here are few:
1-Variara submachine gun
2- MAB 38A P.A.I
3- The Genar PM-470
4- MAB 38 (1)
5- Armaguerra Mod. 35
(Images are in order)
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Beretta MAB 38 (1)
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But all in all was an awesome read

9 Likes

We donā€™t need more main faction but sub faction, just add sub tech tree under German one for other axis faction and let players decide what axis nation want grind keeping all of them in the same queue as United axis, same for allies

6 Likes

100%ā€¦want all that stuff in the tech tree you made though :slight_smile:

idkā€¦

yes to new toys,
but no to separation of the italians from germany.

like, it all could be easily folded as subfolders if someone does not want the german / italian stuff
or even just add a second TT as a sub folder within the same nation. so you can further divide yet regroup specific unlocks without having to clutter your favorite GER / IT tech tree.

i like having a mixed army made of italian and german units and/or squads.
same with the US & UK.

i donā€™t see why i would have to regrind the whole thing just to get what iā€™m missing in a new faction.
they can simply both coexist. ( which itā€™s ironic since both the UK & Italy still needs equipment from their respective allied nation to compete at latter stages. and we have been over situations like having to regrind mp40s for X times. )

1 Like

They could be separated in match maker but together in the tech tree. It would allow more minor facrions and more ā€œobscureā€ maps.
But I guess we would need much more players for that.
(Also I have no clue if itā€™s possible from the coding perspective.)

thatā€™s sort of the other issue.

if you separate them, we would need players to fill it.

which it would just end up like war thunder isreal or japan faction. the least played factions.
despite having 10x more our playerbase.

granted, both are different games.
but the same principles applies.

hence, itā€™s much better if italians are still part of the german faction.
because players can have the option to play and grind what they want, while still having germanyā€™s support in terms of equipment and numbers.

there are literally 0 downsides.

itā€™s not like italy ever operated alone irl too.

i could sort of see an argument when it comes to " muh immersion ". but then again, itā€™s just personal preferences and nitpicks.

if anything, put a soft rules that if players have italian squads or uk ones, they are more likely to go over tunisia / any italian front related. which now, arenā€™t many and itā€™s the other reason why we donā€™t have much about the italians beside tunisia.

granted, they could, and should use the base uniform over moscow & stalingrad.
butā€¦ again, no real benefit of creating a new faction with not many players going for it.

1 Like