Another friendly reminder to stop derail the news topic
that is an L take. In moscow until the T50, T34 and KV1 were added all but the starter tanks (t-60 and pz2) could pen each other frontally in fact the 45mm can still pen all german tanks in Moscow frontally (i’ve literally 1 shoot multiple PZ3J , PZ4F1, E and F2 last week in my BA-11.
If anything the BP Pz3 with the 50mm is better in every way since more crew, more armor, more pen and better HE shell.
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Yeh low tier tanks were a mess on dev server M8 is top of the tree in Pacific and yet was T1 on dev it can literally destroy every single Japanese tank frontally at every range meanwhile japan had 3-4 tanks in tier 1 and then like 1 tank per tier for the rest most aren’t even that good to begin with.
Same issue in german TT on dev Pz4F1 was a low rank tank and yet is a high tier unlock in moscow not to mention Pz 4 F2 being quite high tier just because it has a semi decent gun.
My opinion also. Enlisted is uniquie in that since you have a squad. It wouldnt matter if most of them have to have rifles, you would still get your choice of weapon for a couple of them that you would use.
Other games would bore people if they had to use mostly rifles each spawn., But enlisted “could” circumvent that
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If you think the StG-44 is better than the FG-42 II. The Soviets are the only ones getting a tangible advantage out of it moving up from the AVT-40 to the AS-44.
Yep. Overall, the game wil become more boring, stale & “sweaty”.
Top tier will guarantee be StG44 & Thompson with 50round spam, and the epitomy of sweatlord meta.
Lower tiers, will also end up with the abuse of spam tactics of the best weapons os said tier.
It all depends on how many BR brackets will be created, and there will be NO smooth transition between them
SPAM isn’t fun or realistic for the matter.
But the BR system darkflow has here will promote the spam of meta lineups in the detriment of equipment variety and historical accuracy.
You need to regulate the ratio between the two weapon systems. That’s how you can balance the game, while avoiding mirror meta.
I had the same idea about a month back. It evolved into a template for a hevily weighted average BR calculation mechanism. It goes into more detail on full lineup balance, but the same principles can be applied within squads just as well. You can have a look at it in my thread below:
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Smacking Mkb players with my Mosin then pushing to get their guns is the opposite of boring.
Balancing infantry weapons like vehicles is fundamentally flawed. Unlike (only) vehicle combat, infantry don’t get immune to lower tier weapons then the one they carry. All of them have distinct roles and can still kill just fine, you just need to outskill your enemy enough to get the first shot off…
Since when the people that go into the test servers are representing the entire playerbase???
As for high tier spam, currently i only see a few spammers per match, and with the exeption of CAS and the Thompsom paratroopers, thay only cause problems when they are totaly unopposed.
The game needs to start insentivising the use of various weapons together (and requlate the amount of high tier ones) and not go for spammy BR brackets.
You can, but should you???
We are not asking for total historical accuracy, we never had that in the first place.
We want a semi-historical battlefield that doesnt spam the ‘best’ weapon in existance at that time.
Which, if you fix the glaring inconsistencies of the 2nd test server, can become better than the currently proposed BR system.
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Oh no. Not another Buritto.
Bolt action rifleman squad does not equal engineer squads armed with FG42.
MP28 doesnt equal PPSh.
Because game is same shit show but with couple of noobs and newbies and Burritos who need to tell me that a bolt action rifle equals a automatic rifle.
This game is spam.
People have all the choices and they choose the FG42 and the Jumbo.
Yes.
Ive heard so many definitions of that I dont even care.
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If i can accumilate 70+ kills with a Mosin against mostly Mkb players, then we need skill based queues.
Remember, the main complain of the BR advocates is the assault rifle spam by “sweatlords”.
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Is that supposed to be an insult???
Instead of challenging the opinion you throw insults? Classic.
I never said MP28 equal PPSh or anything similar. I said that unlike tanks (like Stuart vs Tiger), you can kill any infantryman using any infantry weapon.
And you advocate for more spam…
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There is always some moron who needs to tell that he kicks with bolt actions and he is too good for fancy high end weapons.
But no one and at least I dont cares and it is not important for the overall balance. because 0,01% of the playerbase told me that sending MP28 against PPSh is fine because you can pen the PPSh user.
That still justifies sending MP28s against PPSh because at the end you can still kill someone.
And reality showed us that people dont want to use MP28s against PPSh.
Because then FG42 and AVT and Tiger spamers can love each other only for the most part in their own arena and I can have my fun with non high end stuff in lower br again.
Because reality is, people will spam as long as they can without limit. Devs dont want limits and a chunck of the playerbase doesnt want limits. So here we go with BR.
Enlisted is not a competitive esports game and even those are not 1:1 balance.
Enlisted had Asymmetric balance of equipment weapons and vehicles.
If anything what make the game the worst is sweat behavior of arty spammers, suicide bombing pilots, rifle grenade spammers heck flamethrowers for example are one of those either completely useless or wipes the entire point of enemies.
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We have this now will go away with merge don’t like high end equipment spam? play Pacific, Tunisia, Moscow you want high end equipment spam play Normandy, Berlin want worst maps in the game play Stalingrad xD
and gray zoning tanks case sacred of at grenades and hand held
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Im not a “moron” that thinks that “he is too good for fancy high end weapons”, so stop with the pointless insults and say something constructive to the conversation for once. I just pointed out that asymmetric warfare can be fun and that SKILL MATTERS.
I also like high tier gear, i just don’t like the ruthless spam of them…
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You are again trying to twist my words. I never said they are equal, i said that hard BR brackets for weapons (that end up making entire groups of guns never face eachother even if they are from the same time period) are unnesesary because you don’t have the armor component of tanks. You just get into position and fire away. Good luck doing that to a Tiger 2H with almost any other tank in the game!
Fighting a fully kitted out PPSh-41 squad with MP28sis not balanced not fun, that was never questioned. But that is NOT a good enough excuse to ban the PPSh-41 from existing alongside equpment & in maps of it’s time period.
Just let people to carry only 1 or 2 of them and be sonewhere in the low tiers, and if they wanna spam it, then they still will end up in top tier (carrying only PPSh-41 and AVT-40)
The spammers will always exist in their corner at top tier. i don’t even care about stopping that, but i don’t want it to end up as the only way to play while being on even footing with your enemy. I dont like spam, and i definetly dont like BR brackets that will inevitably fill with spam.
Battles where everyone has a StG44 = eww.
Battles where everyone has only bolt action rifles = also eww.
Can’t we find a solution that keeps balance, but still allows the LIMITED use of high tier equipment alongside low tier equipment in maps that chronologically make sense for all of them?
At least something as rudimentary as:
You slap 1 tier 4 weapon in a tier 1 squad. Now you have a tier 2 squad instead of a tier 4 one.
That basic thing will keep balance intact while allowing stuff like MG34 to play alongside other early war german equpment in realistic quantities, and all of that while avoiding the high tier MG spam.
That is what im advocating for here, a system that will allow the limited use of high tier gear alongside low tier equipment, rather than a spam defined system that lacks equipment variety and any resemblance of historical accuracy other than bolties = Moscow.
At least have a read in this wall of text to understand what i’m talking about before you make any snarky comments again:
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That seems to be something that sadly everyone has forgotten about.
Asymmetric balance is not taken into account at all so far, and we dont have a skill based matchmaking.
(even though we really need one)
Add to that gray zone campers, cause i don’t see DarkFlow ever fixing map issues.
And spammers in general.
Yes, but you still can use them. That completely goes away after the merge…
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Thats the meme people tell for I think three years now and the results are one-sised campaigns 90% of the time.
It totally worked.
Except there is also high end.
There were times that people didnt spam T-34s that could only be reliable pen by like one or two tanks but tanks where even the Panzer II could pen it.
Its so important to know that you smack Mkbs with bas from time to time.
Anyway, skill doesnt change the fact that most guns are better than others and people use the better gun if they can and they can.
Nobody uses BAs if they can use FGs.
Who cares if they dont destroy newbies all the time with tanks newbies cant pen and weapons that have superior dmg, accuracy, magazine size and/or auto fire mode?
Either limit their stuff or lock them away in their own cages.
As of right now so… oh no.
Easily exploitable. I think tommy had a similar system and its gaps were bigger than the Tier III in current BR approach.
WT had a system with people being able to alter the max br with low rating tanks and people exploited the shit out of it so they basically removed it.
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People play what the enjoy, not everyone that has top tier gear plays exclusively top tier.
And they don’t want to be slammed into top tier simply because they use a variety of equpment.
newbies = low SKILL players. I don’t hear anything that will fix that.
If you can grab like one FG and play somewhere between low & mid tier with the rest of you equpment being worse that everyone else’s will you enjoy playing there? Will you enjoy the challenge of killing that one FG guy and then stomping over his Kar98 with a mid tier SMG squad? Or you would prefer if the only way to play the FG42 is against endless Fedorov & AVT-40 spam?
Why everyone doesn’t read my post, but still comments on it.
I literally have a wall of suggestions to stop the exploitation of said system.
READ first, comment after! At least the last post, if not my whole thread.
You don’t need big gaps for a system like this to work. You need a more granular system.
BRs 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 are not enough. Where is BR 2.2 for the people that put a few tier 3 weapons in their tier 2 squads??? The max BR is only 5? What is the uptier/downtier spread??? 1.0? or arbitrary based on tier??? (tier 3 has a ±2 spread? why darkflow???)
Tanks =/= infantry!………
The sole reason that WT canned that system was because you could downtier stuff like a KV-1 low enough that it was literally invincible to anything but CAS.
You can still find some remnants of that system in Air Arcade.
Again, infantry doesn’t have that fundimental issue.
(+ tanks don’t have to deal only with other tanks, sometines it’s not even their main duty)
Because:
IF we had a skill based matchmaker we could have the sweatlords fight eachother while everyone else enjoyed grinding.
In Moscow i have seen more matches where it feels like the USSR doesn’t have any tanks than matches with any T-34s at all. I don’t remember the last time i ever saw a sherman or pz.IV f2 in Tunisia. Also, most oppressive tanks stay back in grayzone and simply never die. It can’t really be spam if you don’t even respawn once…
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i agree rather have skill based
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It still doesnt change reality.
Competition wins. Drum wins, not interwar 20 mag SMG.
There are differences between newbies killed with a Panzer III and newbies killed with a Panzer VI while newbie still has a Stuart.
Probably. People had more fun with that in WT than facing balanced tanks and planes.
Not with the current player count. The devs had more tiers but it splitted people up so much that at the end you would fall back of closing gaps with mm being more tolerant.
If you go down the bare low level of “but you dont need to pen inf”, then yes in terms of Captain Obvious.
This low level mantra would justify a lot of imbalance among infantry because “just aim for head bro lolz”.
Like thats not reaosn enough.
But only one reason seems pretty decent even though the sole reason was pretty horrigic.
Who the fuck enjoys grinding? Grinding is one of the worst aspect of this game and soon people need months just to get a stupid semi auto that isnt crap.
Skill based mm in a game where 40-50% of the enemy squads are bots is really great.
Also makes sense in a game where you have huge arsenal power creeps.
One anecdote vs. hundred anecdotes…