(Before you ask, yes I did make a post like this a while back. I made several mistakes in that one that I have corected. I have also added a another related topic.)
2 Thompsons in game do not have their historical base fire rates. However interestingly they both have the rate of fire that the other had historically. This is exceptionally convenient as it means no balance adjustment or tech tree movement is needed to fix it.
As of currently the ROFs are as such
Name
Base rate of fire
M21/28 Thompson
700
M1A1 Thompson
600
Their historical fire rates and what I am suggesting they be changed too are however as follows
Name
Base rate of fire
M21/28 Thompson
600
M1A1 Thompson
700
As stated before everything else about the gun such as the reload, recoil, and BR would be changed as well. This would basically just be a model and name swap. It would have no impact in game whatsoever except for making it more historical.
Sources:
-M21/28
Auto Ordnance Thompson handbook. 4th edition 1929. Handbook for the operation of the gun. AKA users manual.
While on the topic of US SMGs there are 2 more things I would like to cover.
First, the M3 Grease guns both had a fire rate of around 450 so I would suggest that their base fire rates be increased to 400 and 450 respectively. This would also make the M3A1 a (slightly) better competitor to the BR2 Thompson which has a ROF of 600.
Second, the Thompsons with stick mags historically had a bolt hold open so that you did not have to rack the bolt when reloading. This is shown in game, however for the M1 and M1A1 versions the reload is artificially extended by smacking the bottom of the mag after inserting it. This is somewhat ok although frustrating because it was a practice used during the war although not often. What is not OK however is that on an empty reload the bottom of the mag is smacked a second time for LITERALLY NO REASON. The whole point of empty reloads being longer is that you have to rack the bolt first. In the case of the Thompson it doesn’t need that so reloading either way should last the same amount of time. Adding to this all other stick mag Thompsons in the game don’t have a pointlessly extended empty reload, the reload takes the same amount of time both ways. It also shows the dude struggling to put the mag in because you have to fit it on a rail before sliding it in. What I am asking for is for the reload on the other stick mag Thompsons be ported on to the M1 and M1A1. Since the dimensions are almost exactly the same there is no need to make new reload animations or anything like that. Simply port the animation over and it would work perfectly.
As always any feedback or input is requested and appreciated.
I’m just voting no on swapping the two Thompsons around because as you mentioned in your main post:
I love historical accuracy, but something as menial as this I can look over. An easy head cannon is just the m1928 has superior ammo, or the m1a1 has subpar ammo, which did happen a lot during the war. For those that are unaware, ammo wasn’t very consistent during the war, hence differing rpm values as better ammo yields more rpm vs worse ammo.
Besides, I doubt the Devs will act on this even more so due to no change to game balance.
I second this very strongly. I have made multiple posts in the past and many other players even have shot it down. The M3 grease gun is unusable even when fully upgraded, and the M3A1 is ok, but not good when upgraded. Many have said that “it’s only a small rpm change so it doesn’t matter” or “it would ruin the character of the gun.”
No. No it won’t. It would still fire way slower than the competition, but it just makes them more usable as they suffer from really low rpm and what many forget, horrendous velocity. And even 50rpm extra would make a huge difference, and it would be very noticeable at such a low rpm too.
I would like for them to be swapped, not for historical accuracy but because that way I could get an accurate British North African BR II squad. The Brits used M1928 Thompson Machine Carbines due to the shortage of home made weapons after the disaster on Dunkirk.
It’s true that the stick mag versions of the smgs which could fit either stick mags or drum mags should have a quicker reload for the stick mag version, while the drum mag versions should have a slower reload speed, because these mags were quite heavy and impractical. If the rate of fire of these guns is inaccurate, it should be fixed too. For the grease gun, I don’t really know yet, I haven’t voted for this one yet, I was more thinking about a quicker reload speed for the M3A1 compared to the M3, because the M3A1 completely removed the weird “crank” from the M3 version, so I guess it could have a quicker reload.
I am thinking about some rebalance changes for guns that would be a bit more historical when possible by differentiating the reload speed and amount of ammo carried depending on whether the gun uses stick mags or drum mags, because I really don’t like the current balance of “small mag: low BR, big mag: high BR”. It’s a bit tricky so it will take some time, but atm I’m working more on a solution for limiting the “full auto rifles spam” that are the high BR battles. It might not please everyone, but I think this would be fair.
M3 submachine gun.
Maybe its just me, but it is already my go to submachine gun for BR I with US soldiers (British get STEN mk.II) and I feel that its okay, not strong and would still be balanced with this buff, but it is reasonable for it’s BR.
However, if only M3A1 received the fire rate buff (and it does need it) than this would better justify the BR difference between M3 and M3A1.
I believe that the fire rate for the M1A1 being 600 rpm is due to a citation error from wikipedia.
From what I gathered the average fire rate was indeed around 700 rpm.
In the first firing report of the modified M1 (M1A1) Thompson conducted on 9 and 10 September 1942, it was noted that the average rate of fire of the modified M1, when fitted with a fixed firing pin bolt, was 667 rpm. A high of 746, and a low of 622 rpm was recorded. This was compared with the standard M1’s average rate of fire of 775 rpm. A total of 5,780 rounds of .45 caliber service were fired during the testing. The ammunition used in the test was manufactured by the Western Cartridge Company lot #6183. The only malfunctions recorded during the two-day test was the bolt failed to remain rearward after the magazine was emptied on eight occasions. M1 VS M1A1 THOMPSON SUBMACHINE GUN CYCLIC RATE - Small Arms Review
