What if we really heavily leaned into Asymmetry? The Russians in Moscow could have their first assault weapon be the TOZ-B when the Germans unlock the MP-28 and their first SMG be a PPD-40 (around the same time the MP-38 is unlocked) with a 71-round drum and unlock a PPSh-41 with a drum around the same time as the MP-40. The Germans could unlock a MG (in the form of a ZB-26) earlier than the Russians and then the Russians unlock the DP-28 around the same time as the Germans unlock the MG-13 and then the Madsen could replace the Chauchat as a premium gun. The German Mausers would be all around better than the Mosins, and the Russians would get a SVT-40 that actually works but suffers the accuracy problems it was known for while the Germans get the constantly jamming Gewehr 41. You could make it so the Germans have multiple Austrian Mannlichers and (Danish and Norwegian) Krag–Jørgensens as alternative rifles while the Soviets only have the Winchester 1895 (which on a completely unrelated note had a kickass bayonet). Have the Soviets get the PTRD-41 followed by the PTRS-41 as an unlock while the Germans only get the Panzerbusch. Make the F1 and Steilhandgranate not like identical in stats and other stuff like that.
Also the SVT-40 could be unlocked much earlier than the Gewehr 41, specifically around the same time as the ZB-26 is unlocked.
Asymmetry can work but only if gamemodes are adapted to it.
For example: USSR might be balanced as defenders but Germany could be overpowered or the other way round.
This is something that had to be thought out very well in games such as Red Orchestra, which has limitations depending on which nation gets what role.
Yeah - if yo are going to have that sort of asymmetry then you probably need to start restricting roles - so Soviets mainly defensive in Moscow, Axis defensive in Normandy, etc.
Personally I’d prefer that - the campaigns would have a distinctly historic feel to them and not just be generic equal-opportunity “let’s be fair to everyone” saccharine… but it takes a lot more work to get hte balance right.
I like the idea a bit
BUT
As a big asymmetry fan I have to say your suggestion doesn’t have asymmetry. You see, your opinion only changes the way guns are unlocked and some jam a lot.
For example asymmetry is when Germans have better bolt action rifle than the Americans but can only take one semi automatic rifle per squad while Americans can take for example 3.
Asymmetrical balance is giving Germans far better MG’s and Tanks and so on
But the main issue is just like @109260018 @Josephs_Piano have said
My hopes for Asymmetric balance have been killed when Devs gave the ability for Germans to defend Moscow.
The only way to bring the Asymmetric balance is to make Moscow a campaign where you can only defend as Soviet and Normandy where you can only defend as German
Anyways, I’m pleased that you like the idea of asymmetrical balance and here are some of my topics that push the asymmetry, I want to show you my ideas:
Note: the last poll got closed but I can confirm majority of players (40-50 voters) wanted asymmetry between the teams
I guess asymmetrical balancing would be more accurate
The issue with asymmetry is that the total “value” of a weapon must still be the same for it to be balanced.
For example, that TOZ-B can win against a MP28, but only if it fires first, and fires accurately. After that, the MP28 has an huge advantage. Meaning that there is a difference in the required effort for the guns to have them perform equally. As such, putting only those two weapons against each other would lead to a disadvantage for the Russian teams.
Because of this, I would prefer having the asymmetry within weapon classes. For example, the PPD fires faster and as such has more DPS, but is less stable than the MP28, leading to it being slightly better at short range, but slightly worse at mid range, as it currently is the case.
Well Normandy right now is back to the old system of each invasion map having fixed teams.
The US always attacks on the beach and in assult, while Germany always attacks in Le Bri.
Moscow might be the same way again, but I haven’t played it enough to confirm. I’ve only ever seen Germany attacking in volvomoscow village and Russia attacking in the monastery.
True assymetry would be nice, but it’s also hard to pull off and never really worked in War Thunder events that did it.
True assymetry if you ask me is never comparing the TOZ to the MP28 to begin with. You have to compare overall team and progression dynamics and use individual weapons to balance that, rather than balancing weapons against eachother.
That only works if the battle conditions are also asymmetrical. Which they are not. Both sides can attack on assault/invasion on almost all maps. Conquest is symmetrical as well.
Average team skill should not be considered as if you balance something for top skill/competitive play, it can never lead to unbalanced matches at the casual level, while if you balance something at the casual level, it can become very abusive at the competitive level. Just look at the German tech tree in War Thunder, with objectively better tanks for their BR, or the R3 at 4.0.
As a result, the only that is left to compare is weapon types as a whole (SMGs vs SMGs in general or close range vs close range), and individual weapon comparisons (MP41 vs PPK)
Like I said I’m pretty sure that’s no longer the case.
Only for Normandy afaik.
I’ve only ever seen Russia attacking on the Monastery map and defending in the village lately
I’ve been on German defense in village last time I played it which is like 3 days ago
The disadvantage would only last until they unlock the PPD-40. From then on out the Germans have a significant disadvantage when it comes to SMGs (as it should be).
justifying fucked up balance just because it will be fucked up the other way around later down the line doesn’t lead to actual balance.
Well maybe it’s not really balancing then? I guess it’s actually using the strengths and weaknesses of each sides small arms development?
This game is not a military simulator. If you want that level of “historical accuracy”, you should go play a game that is.
“Historically Accurate” games have very little firearms diversity compared to the potential this has
Realism is literally one of three descriptors they use on their website to describe the game.