Swedish volunteers armed by swedes -/- finns.
Lets make equally retarded demand, show me a photo of finn holding sign that they refuse to use kpis37
Facts you cannot escape:
- Volunteers did not invent weapons from thin air,
- Volunteers did not bypass Swedish military property control,
- Volunteers did not leave weapons unrecorded in Finnish service if those weapons existed,
If Swedish volunteers had brought m/37s:
- Sweden must have released them,
- They must have appeared in Finnish records, photos, memoirs, or postwar surveys,
- They must have left some trace.
There is nothing. Finland obsessively documented foreign weapons, carefully catalogued calibres and variants, photographed and reported unusual arms extensively, and left behind detailed postwar ordnance studies.
If Kpist m/37s had appeared:
- they would be noted as foreign, odd-calibre SMGs,
- they would stand out immediately in documentation,
- they would be known of today as collectors items (as many former Finnish rare service guns are today).
The total absence of evidence is not accidental.
Cope.
That is pure argument from pure, unashamed ignorance. By that logic:
- Finland might have used Lewis guns in .30-06,
- Finland might have used muskets left over from the Great Northern War,
- Finland might have used Martian ray guns.
Unless someone shows a photo of Finns refusing them. Such a dumb point of view that you are porbably trolling, again.
That’s not how history, or reality, works. History isn’t proven by demanding photos of people not using something. Produce evidence of Kpist m/37s in Finnish use, or the claim is fiction, it’s that simple.
Produce some evidence, stop arguing based on feels, or your claim is void.
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You have to prove that something did happen not that something didn’t. It’s essentially impossible to properly prove that something didn’t happen because there’s no evidence if it didn’t happen and as thus is not able to be proven.
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So I assume you DO have access to these records ? Im sure Sweden didnt just hand out guns like candy so you most likely do have a record that volunteers we’re armed with everything else but submachineguns ?
Ah yes the troll argument.
“Im expert of swedens 2 pages long war history hurpadurpdurp provide me documents & Photos”
Shouldnt be too hard for you to provide the actual documents.
It feels bit odd that sweden supplied its volunteers with everything else but submachine guns.
But im sure you have a document that clearly explains why its excluded.
Kinda like above explained, unfortunately I wasnt born 1920 with access to my smartphone so unfortunately I cannot provide such “photo” as requested as prove.
How ever, as again above explained someone that presents itself as some sort of expert regarding swedens extremely long war history of ww2 it probably shouldnt be too hard to provide documents what exactly was provided and what definitely wasnt.
It doesnt really make sense that sweden armed its volunteers with everything else than smg’s.
But im sure, this can be easily proven wrong by providing the documents what they did supply for volunteers.
I don’t care how you feel.
It doesn’t change reality.
Cope harder.
Funny how that exactly same works on your claims.
Point to my feelings.
I’ve stated facts, you’re speculating based on your own feelings.
We both know your countrys modern war history fits to 1 A4 page.
So it feels extremely odd that you kinda present yourself of expert of the matter but cant really provide anything but your personal opinions based on “feelings”
“We might need them” FOR WHAT ? You were maid of germany and no amount of small arms would have saved you from them in armed conflict.
Communists ? Well if you cant stop them at Finland, you sure as fk aint stopping them at swedish border either.
Ah yes, when someone presents himself as expert of something he doesnt have to really provide anything.
Kinda the definition of your “Feelings” im sure such expert like yourself could easily provide that 1 paragraph from A4 size warhistory of sweden where it clearly states that every other weapon was provided for volunteers but submachineguns.
But instead, you gave some half-assed feelings based arguments.
Gotcha.
I’ll walk 30 minutes to my local university and pull out the exact book which states the exact number of materials sent, if it means you’ll walk back everything.
I doubt you’d do the same for me.
Still don’t see why the multitude of factually proven points can be construed as “opinion”, though, unless you’re sitting on alternative evidence. I guess Sweden was just a SMG producing powerhouse, and no one knew but you.
Might even own it myself, but the university library is closer than my storage unit.
Well that would prove you are a expert of the subject wouldnt it ?
No, I will not since for me the walk to same university would be much more than 30mins.
Your opinion = fact
My opinion = Provide photo
Well few to none countries produces weapons to be decorations.
And then again, I dont really think the sweden was machine gun powerhouse either but somehow those they had to spare for theyr own volunteers.
Something doesnt add up here.
I’ve explained why.
When I get the numbers for what things, they’ll just say what was sent.
You seem to have already found the numbers yourself though, even if it’s not from the source, yet you still doubt them.
Will anything change once I get the book, or will you still weasle your way out…?
Sure.
Nope. Ive got only what google offers.
And since the kpist37-39 is mentioned here and there, regardless was there 1 or 2 is quite irrelevant IF they were there.
Im quite sure the first link I gave I mentioned take it with mountain of salt.
As im not expert of the subject what swedish volunteers brought with them.
Just feels extremely odd that they supplied all kind of war material to them but smg’s.
If you’d care to listen to the reasons for why they didn’t, you might begin to understand…
Look, all I can do for you is give you the numbers on Monday, wether or not you want to take my explenations for why they are as they are that’s up to you.
They’re not wrong the reasons, if you take a look at them individually, and together they paint a clear picture why none were sent.
Well the only logical reason was that they used different cartridge.
Which, hardly is issue since that was the case with all swedes weapons and they did indeed get supplied by sweden.
Fine for me.
Not that they didn’t have enough…?
Not that they were franticly trying to get more, including from the Finns themselves…? No one switches ammunition in the middle of a military buildup unless there’s a very good reason, and the very good reason in this case was “Jesus Christ, literally no one uses Browning Long ammo, but we need SMGs and Pistols, and we needed them yesterday”.
It’s just the reality of Swedish rearmaments… They were in the middle of adopting (for what was to them) a new style of weaponry, domestic needs couldn’t fill it, they turned to foreign means. By 1939 Sweden just didn’t have anything to spare, they had to the very limmited retain stocks in case of invasion.
If you’ll look at the small arms that were supplied, they were all using the same rifle calibre. That’s not a coincidence.
I believe Sweden sent something as mad as 50 000 000 6.5-Swedish ammo to Finland, because they were not lacking in their standard rifle calibre bullets, and were in a very good position to manufacture more.
Contrast this with the Browning Long ammo, which was used in a far lesser scale, mostly by pistols (pistols were only really in use by officers, pilots, and tankers, for a small country like Sweden during peacetime that’s not a lot) and only just starting out using SMGs for them themselves. The same industrial capacity did not exist for the pistol ammo at the time for their manufacture, nor did the stocks.
Could say that applied to everything
Well as said, even if Sweden had 500k smg’s it wasnt going to stop invasion from Germany so that card was out of question, hence the “neutral” role, regardless heavily leaning to be best friends for ever with germany.
Norway wasnt going to invade sweden.
Finland was slightly busy with other countries.
So the only invasion that could happen was from east incase if finland fell.
And in that case the Germany would have also come to Sweden to liberate its iron mines.
Quite often machineguns & rifles shares same cartridge.
Well, you would say that.
Sweden did adopt a machinegun specific cartridge, 8mm Swedish.
Just not relevant to the argument, sorry.
Switzerland would have fallen too, if it was invaded, doesn’t mean the country should roll over and accept it. Make peace more proffitable than a costly war, best defence strategy since… Well, a long time.
Just because you say it’s hopless, that doesn’t mean they suddenly had SMGs to spare, you’d find that the people in the past would disagree with your assesment.
You could say that.
You’d be a little wrong, though, there are levels of scarcity, everyone can defninetly benefit from having more of everything, but some things are desperately more needed than others.
We’re talking about at most a thousand m/37 SMGs by 1939, and they’re all spoken for, and all SMGs that they have. Contrast that number with what is likely to be half a million rifles, and you’ll see the issue with this argument.
Preassured trade and coercion for transit rights isn’t friendship. Feeding intelligence to the its enemies, arming its enemies, housing its enemies, and planning to fight it is the opposite of “best friends forever.”
Did you know Sweden was a month away from landing troops in occupied Denmark before the war ended…?
My bad…
It was less than two weeks, I apoligize for my mistake.