Can you actually provide any sources to back up your claim its the gun itself influencing the ROF and not the ammunition
I think the 717 was designation for captured PPSh. Hence nothing has been changed. So in theory the only differency would be ammunition.
But im quite sure GE had more than plenty of 7.62tokarevs to go with the captured guns.
And the 2 cartridges are so closely similar that I highly doubt it would affect the rate of fire in any significant manner.
Recoil spring & weight of bolt is the 2 things that affects the most in this exact case.
50-100 rpm is possible in modern guns when using very low pressure ammo or very high pressure ammo, while gas settings are also adjustable.
That being said, didn’t Italians also use higher pressure 9mm rounds to increase their range? I guess different ammo pressure types did exist back in the day.
Btw the video evidence you show, shows that the PPS-43 is indeed in 650 rpm
Note I counted 29 bc the guy didn’t mag dump 6 rounds instead go single fire for 4 rounds than did a small burst of 2 (I counted) then didn’t reload the magazine
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I can give source that the 1941 var. Ppsh was different with tangent sight and what not but I cant exactly retrace a source from 2 years ago.
The issue is that most source give the average fire rate (900 rpm) while 1941 var. had 850, most had around 900 and the in game one has the highest possible fire rate with 1000 rpm and no one really cares that much about giving the exact fire rate that since it mostly matters to video games.
I rather trust LAI publications with this since even a small time (bad cutting, starting a little off) difference can lead to distortion.
It WAS a designation for a captured PPSh. The 717 and PPSh are the exact same firearm. The 717 is an early production PPSh with an adjustable ladder sight and fed with 7.63x25 Mauser ammunition
The explaination with the axis one beeing the pattern an thus it shooting slower was the official reason given by the devs. The ammo was not concidered and thus should be pointless for this debate.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/enlisted/i/7zl2QJGZ57D4
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They are early and late variants, but the only real difference aside from any potential reductions in manufacturing time is the tangent sight (early) and flip sight (late). Can you provide some sources showing different bolt masses between the two, or spring weight?
I wonder what their source was? It could help put this thing to rest. I’d be happily proven wrong if there was some sort of significant change to the bolt or spring in the later production versions.
Cant really remember what they did use as recoil buffer originally bakelite? leather ? something else ?
Anyway, what ever was used in first guns was prone to wear down somewhat quickly leading to increased recoil,rof & eventually gun simply beating itself to death.
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Perhaps they also wanted to solve the problem that, due to the high rate of fire of the PPSH-41, inexperienced soldiers would empty the magazine in seconds; I had read that this was a relative problem, along with the fact that the drums were not always reliable.
The Ppsh-43 It’s actually quite good, the damage might not seem like much, but with that rate of fire and pretty clean aim, it’s simply better at close range, and considering that BR2 SMGs are mostly slow or inaccurate, that’s really something.
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with 50 rpm difference at such a high fire rate? basically any change to the mechanism could increase the fire by that much without touching the spring or bolt.
A peculiar example of this would be the 8mm Mauser; its ballistic performance was quite good for ammunition up until the early 2000s.
There do exist videos of PPS43 with over 800 rpm, and apparently changing the rate of fire was a somewhat commonly done field modification, because apparently all you had to do is to strech your recoil spring.
That being said, it is historically known that the Soviets were unhappy with the ammo consumption of PPSH41 and wanted to step away from the drum mags, which is why they deliberately made PPS43 a slow firing gun. 650 rpm is no random number either, all later AKs even up to this date fire with 600-700 RPM.
800 RPM for PPS and such is technically possible but goes against the intended design of the gun and is a overall a wrong representation of the weapon.
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To be bit more specific, I think they figured out its just excessive firerate.
I havent exactly found any documents of how many 7.62xtokarevs soviets made but far as I know the ammo quantity wasnt exactly a problem for them.
The problem was the amount of ammo a soldier could carry.
A soldier was only issued around 200 rounds of ammo in magazines which would run out very very quickly in combat, meaning that he had to reload his magazine in combat.
Submachine guns with lower fire rate were actually the superior designs in reality since he could keep firing for longer.
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Well yes, but supply is not the same issue as “being able to carry ammo”
Drums have obviously disadvantages that however cant really properly be implemented in video games, but when 50% of your rounds on target are unnecessary or miss your target, then you effectively carry 50% of ammo that will get wasted.
disregarding the early war chaos I dont really think it was issue to supply ammo either.
Its simply just excessive firerate that grants little to nothing benefit.
Well the reloading them is arguably the only thing that I can think of.
Takes more time than conventional double stack banana sticks.
Id say that has more to do with excessive firerate than magazine.
Quite sure the drums did fit pps42’s / 43’s, if not atleast on direct copy of it Kp44 could take the drum.
nvm, pps42/43 neither could take drum carry on.
hence the mention of excessive firerate.
Theres very little to benefit from such high firerate especiatly if the accuracy is taken in account.
PPsh wasnt exactly a sniper rifle.