Definitely not alone
1 Like
Weapon class shouldn’t be a justification for damage, calibre should be.
5 Likes
Just reclassify the M2 carbine into an assault rifle like the Hyde 1944
That gun should not do Fedorov Avtomat tier of damage, thats utterly absurd
1 Like
I see ARs vs SFs as an issue of comparing a BR5 weapon to a BR6 weapon tbh. I’d like to see BR5 decompressed before any drastic balancing decisions are made
Almost nobody is using M2 anymore since US got T20, so yeah… BR4 but finally moved to the assaulter class would make so much sense…
1 Like
That’s because 90% of the player don’t know how recoil control work in game
Include @Valkay
The recoil control ISN’T the multiplication factor of recoil
It only affect when you goes full auto, it do 0 impact to recoil if you play semi auto
Just give it a try - AVT36 bouce peak is same as the SVT40 in the first shot despite it has recoil control
recoil control pull back your camera AFTER shot, so it offset the recoil when you keep firing
Its hard to figure out what you actually tallking about, but Im pretty sure you are getting confused over visual recoil.
thats only how visual recoil works (plus the gun moves ever so slightly to simulate handshake).
old topic from when Type Otsu had 100% recoil control and thus zero effective recoil (stats included in topic so you can check for yourself), but the gun still moves slightly because visual recoil is still applied. If you fired Otsu than waited, it went right back to the target after a second because the recoil was purely visual.
First, we’ll increase the damage of the M1\2 Carbine, and then we’ll increase the damage of the other calibers to make the difference between the calibers more noticeable. However, this will make the soldiers too weak and they will start dying from seemingly minor injuries (instant death from a shot to the heel), so we’ll increase the health of the soldiers.
As a result, we’ve doubled the damage of all weapons in the game, but we’ve also doubled the health of the soldiers.
total total, nothing has changed.
1 Like
Nah, honestly, that’s a bit too generous. It fires a pistol cartridge, and that kind of damage is more than justified considering the magazine size.
M2 and M1 carbine fire .30 carbine (7.62×33mm), which as the name implies is not pistol ammo, but carbine. Though its a light cartridge and it only has about 100m more effective range than your average pistol round firing submachinegun.
2 Likes
Why would they double the health of soldiers because of an M2 Carbine buff? BR 5 is defined by a fast TTK, so that would be counterproductive (and make the lower BRs even slower).
Enlisted’s BRs provide a spectrum of gameplay pace. Having the option to run a gave mode with one-shot weapons + squad management provides something really fun and fast-paced, but it would be nice if there were more viable options beyond Select-Fires, because variety keeps things interesting.
This is absolutely true, though people don’t realize .30 Carbine has triple the muzzle energy of most 9x19mm parabellum rounds.
And of course, damage is a balance stat. It’s why Bolt-Action rifles and semi autos can fire the same cartridge, but the bolt-actions sometimes deal more than 2x the damage per shot.
No it’s not
visual recoil only affect gun model and rear sight, it doesn’t move your screen
We’re talking about the shift of aimming point
100% recoil control means it still have real recoil, but the aim point will return to the original point after.
If you fire fast enough before the aim point return, that shot will go above target, that proof the recoil is real even with 100% recoil contro
This “Effective Recoil” doesn’t exist in game anyway, it is just a explanatory stat, doesn’t have a strict mathematical relationship with how recoil work in game.
So in short, when you fire, the screen will be push by “Statcard Recoil”, after that it will be pull back by " Recoil Control", when continuous to shoot, these two will offest making recoil seem to decrease. That why “Effective Recoil” (as product of two numbers) is not a thing, cause real “continuous recoil” is also affect by weapon rof and will definitely not be linear.
I would rather then remove the class restriction so tankers can use it before this. Just my personal opinion on it.
A buff of any kind is already taking it to far, why bother to have different damage at different cartridge sizes and ROF if people want to make everything full auto and 1 hit kill damage? This basically says the Americans don’t have anything better in game so let’s just overtune when I don’t want to prepose new weapons that better fill the role I feel this should. This argument can be said of any faction, it breaks the already established system for SF, AR, SMG, and similar weapons. Not only causing balancing issues but making a much bigger issue where a faction lost its real strength, identity. Identity can be considered how a weapon falls short as well as how it’s strengths preform. This identity crisis will most likely spread to something else and something after that when enough people cry about the meta someone else created when requesting a change that’s heavy handed.
I have droned on enough, in short it don’t need a drastic change like this. I’m not against bringing it up a bit in overall power or downtier as needed just as long as it feels right for the game in the end.
Ye thats why i changed it from actual recoil to effective recoil
Since actual would be innacurate
I’m not arguing, but it’s closer to pistol cartridges than to even intermediate ones, let alone full-power rifle rounds. Maybe there’s been a misunderstanding — in Russian classification, a carbine is a rifle with a somewhat shorter barrel and cavalry-style sling mount, generally retaining its rifle caliber.
9x19mm Parabellum: 400-500J muzzle energy
.45 ACP: 605J muzzle energy
9mm Mauser Export: 827J muzzle energy
.30 Carbine: 1321J muzzle energy
6.5mm Arisaka (Fedorov Avtomat): 1961J muzzle energy
7.92x33mm Kurz: 1969J muzzle energy
.30 Carbine sits about halfway between .45 ACP and both 6.5mm Arisaka (fired from Fedorov Avtomat) and 7.92mm Kurz fired from the StG 44 in terms of muzzle energy. At the same time, the StG 44 and Fedorov have near identical muzzle energy, and yet the Fedorov deals 4.3 more damage.
All of this to say, there are some damage conventions, but there’s no reason why the .30 Carbine should be compared to a pistol round. It even eclipses 9x25mm Mauser by an extra 500J.
it is cause they used unified cartridge damage without taking account muzzle velocity/energy and barrel length. btw this is good point for nerfing fedorov avtomat.
1 Like
You may want to add a label to clarify that
Many play really think recoil control will mult the recoil
I have a theory, (hard to know for sure, that’s the devs) that damage isn’t exactly linked to BR and caliber solely, they look at everything. BR, weapon class (rifle, AR, etc), Rof, recoil, and literally every stat. Then after looking at real world data they go, “yep that’s way to powerful, time to nerf” without actually understanding the full specifications, and what game balance is. Their whole system is wonky weapon to weapon, but for what we have, it’s a mostly playable product. Save for select faction weapons and vehicles, that number of things could be higher but they won’t release 90% of good valid easy to do suggestions And for whatever weird reason prefer the more obscure difficult ones.
I can’t confirm that’s how they do things, That’s just the way they make it feel. Almost like they need to use the community Management as PR, or to select a random suggestion. What I’m getting at is they are so disconnected, which is one reason why good features have not been implemented, deadlines have repeatedly failed to be met, Battle passes and updates feel like they’re getting diminished returns, etc.
All of this leads to incredible instability in each individual faction feeling frustrated at complete random, 1 minute majority of the faction is doing really well the next minute they’re doing horribly. Weapon suggestions and balancing should be carefully thought out, instead, the community tears each other apart over what feels like a fourth of every faction’s tech tree.
I can’t say for sure 8.8 is the best, but maybe something more in other areas can be done. As long as it’s somewhat reflects the real life counterparts statistics. It doesn’t have to be exact, but it should at least feel realistic. This may not have been a problem if the above mentioned disconnection with the player base wasn’t a thing. This isn’t just a per basis situation, This should be a sweeping pass over every weapon in the game. Maybe it’s time to rebalance health? It may be more than just the weapon itself.
Edit: idea, raise the damage to 12.0 for a PTS. See how it functions and if its to powerful and if so then revert to pre PTS with the updates next changes. Since that data doesn’t carry over to the live game, it wouldn’t hurt to test it. This might actually be a good way that they can push certain changes without being instantly destructive toward the game or getting a whole bunch of backlash from one side or another, the inspiration and reasoning was behind that was the most recent SF update and how the community positively or negatively felt.
Another point to that is if it didn’t work, That’s when they might be able to look at other aspects and see what needs a change to improve this.