**Abolish Uptiering — Call to Arms**

More than BR 3 for sure, as long as you play BR 5 Japan which you apparently did?

This is not true. You said it yourself. BR 3 is the most popular BR in the game. This also means that the amount of decently skilled players are abundant on BR 3. BR 3 in general are evenly matched except Japan BR 3, Japan BR 3 suffers from low win ratio but other 3 factions have a comparable win ratio to each others.

This is not really a good argument. You played BR 5 Japan with the pre-made team. Your goal wasn’t really to farm but rather, your goal was to have as much easy games as much as possible if i were to guess.

But br3 were also dilute by the noob players while br5 is less diluted.

The last time I play with pre made team is long ago.
That is why I have concern on our understanding of the word “stack”.

No, I’m saying your complaint about the lack of players in any given match is nonsense because nothing would change.

Like i said, not when you play the very specific faction that has an abnormally high win ratio. There’s a reason that why people perceives queuing as the BR 5 Soviet is the ultimate “lose button”. Because in most cases it is, especailly against BR 5 Japan. I think you are underestimating that how bad the BR 5 Soviet playerbase are.

Okay, fair enough.

Who says nothing will change, if implemented such function, the problem might not only exist on wrong nation at the wrong time.

I will says the problem is cause by br5 Soviet player is also bad. So it is less related to br4 players getting uptier to br5 which is the point of this topic.

Okay, so back to the topic. 0 +/- BR match making for ALL BR seems bit too radical to me and i’m opposed to this to be implemented. We could implement the isolation of BR 5 for like a month of trial phase first and see how it would impacts the game.

1 Like

I will say this is a fair compromise. But I wonder how well it would go. The winrate of USSR and US is higher on br 4 while the winrate of Japan and Germany is higher on BR5.
So I guess the br5 players from USSR and US will go to br4, the br5 Japan and Germany will stomp even harder. That will actually make more punch bag for br5 Japan so the wild guess of OP is not really valid.

±0 matchmaking is the only way for me.
The whole point of having BRs is facing equally equipped enemies, to have an equal change in the fight.
Up- and downtiering spoils that.
Isolating BR5 will result in BR4 only facing BR3 and then BR4 will suddenly become very popular.

I have never played a single battle in BR1 or 4, just because of the up- and downtiering nonsense.
So it limits me to 2, 3 and 5 and completely eliminates 1 and 4.
I would like to play 1 and 4 also. Against equal BRs.

At least we should try ±0 matchmaking for a testing period.
Not sure if that will lead to the ‘empty campaigns problem’, I estimate that it will not.

1 Like

To my understanding, this is due to how the enlisted roll call count matches. If there was a BR 4 stuff in the match despite the match was filled with a majority BR 3 stuff, then the roll call still counts that match as BR 4 games. This explains that why USSR and USA having a high win ratio even on BR 4 despite there aren’t many pure BR 4 games in the first place. Pure BR 4 games also relatively rare as there are not many players playing the BR 4 in the first place and even then those few BR 4 players almost always gets dragged into the BR 5 games.

2 Likes

Fair point on the data
enlistedrollcall only covers a few months, so it doesn’t tell me what you played years ago. ——but I said “your last 242 games,” not “your whole history.” those last 242 games are still you, right now: 99% in BR5, zero in BR4. So when you tell BR4 players to “just choose not to play,” you’re describing a choice you personally make every single day.

And you actually made my point for me again :joy:
A veteran can go to BR3 and farm clueless newbies." You just admitted the clubber exists — yojust insist he’s in BR3, not BR4. Whether the punching bag is BR3 or BR4, the matchmaking is what enables it. The exact BR doesn’t change the principle.

I’m not here to measure seniority and let’s be clear about what’s actually happening here

You’ve posted a handful of old threads to prove… what, exactly? Seniority? Let me read them back to you. Every single one is you arguing against something: against new campaigns, against a realistic mode, against anything that might split the queue. And he same argument every single time: “it will split the playerbase.”

Those old posts don’t actually support your current argument. What they reveal is a consistent pattern running through your entire history
You’ve opposed change in every single one of them. You opposed new campaigns. You opposed the realistic mode. You opposed anything that might split up the matchmaking queue. You were against it before the merge, and now you’re against ±0 too. Other than saying “no,” you’ve contributed basically nothing of value to anything.

So thanks to those old posts you made just to flex your seniority, I think everyone here can now see your behavior pattern: it doesn’t actually matter to you what the proposal is. You just always answer “no,” and the reason is always exactly the same.
And now here you are again, going against the crowd, deliberately dodging my points with all kinds of clumsy, reflex-defense nonsense — all while hiding behind that “veteran” badge. You never actually engaged with the substance of my matchmaking argument. You just pulled out that same “splitting the player base” card you’ve been playing since 2022.
Honestly, You can’t even stick to arguing the actual points.this is a complete failure of basic debate etiquette.

Now let’s talk about your behavior. You called me out for “personal attacks” just because I read your public stats. Those are just publicly available server data ——i think anyone has the right to look them up. If you won’t even allow that kind of criticism, then what you’re actually doing is textbook bad-faith debating.
You dig up irrelevantpld posts to establish your seniority, then ask “where were you back then?” — as if playing longer somehow makes a flimsy argument hold up. Now you’ve set up this gatekeeping rule where people have to have more forum history than you before they’re “qualified” to answer. Why do you keep dodging my actual proposal to ramble about all this irrelevant stuff?

If your concern about “splitting the player base” really had the basis you claim, I don’t think it would even take several months — just one month of test data would prove you right, and it would settle this debate for free. Yu’d win, with evidence, at zero cost.**
So why has this never happened? Unless you already know what the result would be — or you don’t actually want the answer,there’s no reason to refuse running the experiment.

Win ratio have nothing to do with how many br4 there are.

No. What i’m trying to say is that the high win ratio on USSR and USA is just a byproduct of BR 3 win ratio, not the actual win ratio of BR 4 itself. Because you can clear see that the BR 4 win ratio on every faction basically follows the same pattern as their BR 3 win ratio rather than their BR 5. This means that in my opinion, BR 4 itself isn’t significant enough(Of course it isn’t)to influence BR 3 due to the fact that people rarely plays the BR 4 as itself and the BR 4 can do absolutely nothing against BR 5. I think the BR 4 is truly fu**ed BR.

What is this then? You literally said I never played BR1-4.

Lol I post it because you said my bot lobby worry is an excuse so I can farm br4 players as br5 player. But how can it be true if I already said something similar before merge?

Wow, I pick my topic that is related to concern of bot lobby, of course it is no. If there is several topic suggesting keeping ±1 br will you say yes?

You said no on those topic can I also call you contribute to nothing?

How is my public stats have anything to do with not enough players problem in the first place?
You are just diverging the topic to a personal stat discussion.

Because you are acting like bot lobby is not a problem. Back in the day bot lobby is a bad problem, and it was finally solve after the merge. Of course I need to verify if you know how bad the situation is back then.

I’ll leave it here. You’ve spent the last several posts litigating word choice, digging through archives, and relitigating the merge
but you still haven’t answered the one question that why has a one-month ±0 test never been tried?**

If bot lobbies are as catastrophic as you say, the test would prove it. If they’re not, it would prove that too.

Until u can answer that, there’s nothing left to debate. Not wasting any more time on your trolling, sarcasm, and old grudges.:sweat_smile: This loop is pointless. I’m done here.

I am not a dev how should I know about it?
It is funny that you just ignore all of the previous discussion and use a point that you didn’t even include this on your original topic.

Try better next time I guess, most of the stuff you discuss is about personal behavior instead of the topic itself. And stop faking claim when doing suggestion, this suggestion is base on the claim that Chinese server do well, but it is not.

numbers are pretty accurate for regular MM and it is not that hard to get daily numbers. also daily/weekly/monthly unique players are not relevant numbers for MM cause 1 player playing 1 battle in 1 month doesnt do anything for MM. concurrent player number is what is relevant and you can see number for last year and year before last here:

actually not true if playerbase is not enough to support it. i would guess you are relatively new player that hadnt played campaigns, so you didnt experience what is one sided beatdown when one side has more human players than the other.
check allies to axis ratio or axis to allies ratio on certain campaigns in 2023 and you will see which campaigns sucked for underdog side. even normandy which had 1:1 ratio had its moments where it was severely unbalanced cause of TT update or some event reward.

we had that test for first 2 years of the game. solution to that was merge and current MM.

I played back before the '22 merge, then heard about the big rework and came back to check it out. Didn’t really get back into it regularly until 2023/24.

merge was in december 2023…

Right, I meant I only became a regular player in early 2024.In 2022 I just played for a short while.