**Abolish Uptiering — Call to Arms**

Cancel the Uptier Mechanic

Foreword

The uptier debate has been raging on this forum for five years. Over those five years, the community has put forward at least three proposals — ±0 matchmaking, isolating BR V, and adding BR VI — and they’ve been tearing each other apart ever since. Each has its loyal supporters, yet not a single one has ever actually landed.
I don’t want to rehash the “which proposal is better” argument here. I want to ask a more fundamental question: why hasn’t a feature that’s already live on the Chinese server — with a player base this healthy — ever made it to the international server? The answer probably isn’t “they can’t.” It’s “they won’t.”

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I. The ones who get “drafted” don’t even realize they’re hurting their own team

There’s another long-ignored harm of uptiering: the lack of transparency.

When a player gets dragged up into a high-BR lobby, the game never explicitly tells them, “You are being uptiered.” Most of the time, they only get a vague feeling — “why are the enemy vehicles so tanky,” “why are their rilfe so accurate” — without ever realizing they’ve been drafted.

And so a vicious cycle begins. That player rolls out in a low-tier vehicle, because as far as they know, that’s the gear they’re supposed to bring. What they don’t know is that in this high-BR lobby, that low-tier vehicle can’t scratch a single enemy — and it’s also burning a precious vehicle spawn slot. The teammates who could actually field high-tier vehicles just sit there, helpless, watching. And none of this is that player’s fault. They didn’t know. They had no choice.

So from a game-design standpoint, uptiering is simply illogical. A player picks a low-tier weapon — why should they be forced to face high-tier ones? In any sane game design, your gear should correspond to your opponents. You pick BR II, you play BR II matches. But uptiering creates this absurd rule: you bring low-tier gear, and the system throws you into an even higher-tier fight — making you miserable while dragging your innocent teammates down with you.

Let me repeat: “I brought a low-tier weapon, so I deserve to get farmed by high-tier weapons” — that logic makes zero sense from any design perspective. It punishes the player themselves, and their completely unaware teammates.

Maybe from the devs’ perspective, that’s exactly the point — you take a low-tier weapon, you get farmed by high-tier weapons, so you’d better hurry up and grind the tech tree. Spend the time, claw your way to the top, reach BR V, and only then can you stand on the invincible ground of “no longer being beaten by higher tiers.” But honestly — why don’t the devs take a look at how far this game’s power creep has gone? Every BR V match feels like hell on earth. At least, I don’t find it fun.

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II. Uptiering is killing BR IV

The fact is, BR IV currently has the fewest players of all the BRs. And nowadays, BR IV isn’t being dragged down to fight BR III — it’s being dragged up to feed BR V.
The gear gap is right there in the open: propeller planes against jets; 76mm/85mm guns against the King Tiger (H) and the Ho-Ri; semi-auto rifles against full-auto rifles and assault rifles.
Compared to the old BR I–III bracket, where it was just “occasional bad luck,” BR IV’s gameplay has evolved into structural burnout. A BR IV player queues for two or three minutes, gets in, and gets used as a punching bag by BR V. A few matches later, they quit — yeah, that’s me. BR IV is underpopulated not because it’s not fun, but because uptiering has turned it into sparring fodder.

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III. Player count is not an excuse

The most common rebuttal is: “There aren’t enough players to sustain ±0 matchmaking; queues would die.”

But the data doesn’t back that up. enlistedrollcall.com shows Enlisted has over 500,000 unique players. More importantly — the Chinese server, with far fewer players than the international one, has already had ±0 matchmaking for ages, and its popularity hasn’t dropped.
If a much smaller server can do ±0, then the international server’s “we can’t” simply doesn’t hold water.
So the conclusion is clear: this isn’t a technical issue, and it isn’t a population issue. As for what it actually is — I think you all know.

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IV. monetization

So here’s the question: if the tech works and the player count is there, why has the international server kept uptiering for five years?

One possible answer: uptiering itself is the monetization driver.
The essence of uptiering is feeding low-BR players into stomp lobbies against high-BR players. The low-BR players get beaten with no chance to fight back, and naturally start thinking — “My gear sucks, I need to upgrade.” And what’s the way to “upgrade”? Buying premium squads. Buying premium weapons.
In other words, uptiering converts “gear gap” into “spending incentive.” You get stomped by BR V while playing BR IV, and you think it’s because you’re bad — but really, the system is telling you: time to spend. Except reality is another story: even if you pay up, you won’t get a good experience out of this game. In the end, the only beneficiary is Gaijin, who cashes in.
Flip it around: if ±0 matchmaking were implemented, and players could actually enjoy low BR, how many would still feel pressured to spend on “upgrading”? No stomping, no anxiety. No anxiety, no urge to pay.
So the most reasonable explanation for why ±0 hasn’t —— it would cut into a revenue stream. And please note: this isn’t an accusation, just a logical deduction of business incentives. If that deduction holds, then we have to face a fact: uptiering may never have been a game flaw at all. It’s clearly a deliberately preserved feature — as you can plainly see in War Thunder.

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V. Why the international server won’t, but the Chinese server did

If the deduction in Section III is still just speculation, then the double standard between the international and Chinese servers is the most direct evidence against it.
The Chinese server has fewer players and weaker spending power. For Gaijin, it was never a major revenue source anyway — the publisher funnels them money. So they dared to implement ±0 there, because there was nothing to lose.
The international server has more players and stronger spending power. There, uptiering is a genuine revenue engine — so it’s been kept for five years.

Same feature, two servers, two treatments. I’ve always believed ±0 was never about tech or population. It’s purely a business decision across all of Gaijin’s games.
And this issue has always been packaged as “not enough players” — an excuse used for years to divide the community, and to make us self-censor our own demands. It’s time we understood what we actually need: a better, fairer game environment.

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VI. ±0 is withheld option

±0 is technically feasible — the Chinese server already proved it. ±0 is population-feasible — 500,000 players, and a much smaller Chinese server, already proved it. Actually implementing ±0? The only thing missing is Gaijin’s willingness.

So what I’m saying is: instead of continuing to tear each other apart over “isolate BR V / add BR VI / ±0,” we should first unite behind one consensus — uptiering must be abolished, no matter which step we start from.
Isolating BR V can be the first step. Adding BR VI can be a pressure valve. But all of them should point toward the same destination: ±0. The three proposals aren’t enemies — they’re three stops on the same road. What’s really turned them into a “you-or-me” deathmatch is five years of nothing happening. Everyone’s afraid their proposal will get brushed off in favor of another, so they attack each other — and the ones stalling get to sit back and enjoy the show.

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One last line for everyone still waiting: if a change that’s been proven feasible — and demanded for five years — still hasn’t landed, then what needs to be questioned was never the players. It’s the “we can’t do it” excuse itself. We need to understand what we’re truly asking for. Relying on endlessly shaving down our own demands in hopes of being granted someone else’s “mercy” — everyone, you need to understand that will never happen.

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POLL

Do you support abolishing uptiering (implementing ±0 matchmaking)?
  • Yes, uptiering must be abolished
  • Yes, but we can start by isolating BR V as a transition
  • No, keep the current ±1 matchmaking
0 voters
11 Likes

its not as bad for br 1 and 2 or even 3 and 4 but 4 and 5 is where it really kills the balance isolating 5 as a transition is most fair but up tier down tiering is just unfun regardless

2 Likes

At the end of the day, it comes down to revenue.

I don’t think they even know who their “premium squads” are meant for — sometimes they chase power, sometimes they just phone it in. It’s obvious they have no idea what their paid content is supposed to be. They seriously need to rethink who this game is actually for, because their constant “wanting it both ways” approach just ends up losing both. Players are bleeding out — it’s happening right now.

Take Hell Let Loose, for example — I’d happily pay for a DLC with more immersive, historically accurate camouflage or helmets. Men of War? I’d pay to experience new factions and campaigns. And their new title, Panzer Elite — I’d buy a game like that outright just for cooler vehicle visuals and the combat experience.

But what has Gaijin done? Ever since Darkflow was disbanded, they’ve slowly turned this game into something unrecognizable. And as for optimizing the product and pushing updates — that’s their job to sort out, yet it’s always the players who end up footing the bill.

2 Likes

I already had the Soviet tech tree fully researched when I bought my first Soviet premium.
Same is true with Japan and Allies.
Whoever thinks uptier-downtier is necessary because in his mind: players would not want to progress and spend money is an absolute idiot who had not played his own game.

So far I have bought premiums because they were cool/useful/I really liked their guns or the vehicle, but never to gain an advantage over F2Ps or to make my progression faster.

Gaijin is actually losing money they could be making on BR IV premiums because no one plays BR IV and thus few people buy BR IV premiums (accidentally, the developers also do not make BR IV premiums…)
A whole BR absolutely wasted.

5 Likes

This game may have been completely taken over by Gaijin. Because I’m increasingly seeing War Thunder’s shadow here

Developers…
Hear No Evil GIFs | Tenor

8 Likes

So what I’m saying is: instead of continuing to tear each other apart over “isolate BR V / add BR VI / ±0,” we should first unite behind one consensus — uptiering must be abolished, no matter which step we start from.
Isolating BR V can be the first step. Adding BR VI can be a pressure valve. But all of them should point toward the same destination: ±0. The three proposals aren’t enemies — they’re three stops on the same road. What’s really turned them into a “you-or-me” deathmatch is five years of nothing happening. Everyone’s afraid their proposal will get brushed off in favor of another, so they attack each other — and the ones stalling get to sit back and enjoy the show.

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ok on the condition that if wait or q times increase a great deal you quit the game in discrace and everyone in payment is forced to use the join any faction tab, because we have the player base for -+0 matchmaking correct

i say we go straight to -+0 AND AGAIN NO BUT PEOPLE ARE HAVING BETTER MATCHES, THE ARGUMENT HAS ALWAYS BEEN WE HAVE ENOUGH PLAYERS, IF OVER night qtime increases by 20/40/60 percent you have failed you are wrong we dop not have the playerbase

if the -+0 matchmakers are correct and we have the playerbase as not to significantly increase wait time in qs it must be implemented
if they are wrong and the 0± are not enough players those pushing this narrative must be punished

but both sides are correct it must be tested and those who have the correct opionion have it validated whatever that truth may be

3 Likes

Very well said, I fully agree with everything you say and I pray we can keep this thread alive and push the point home.

A fixed battle rating system of no up tiering would be a nice gesture by the devs after this halloween event debacle.

If the community comes together behind this then maybe we will see positive change.

1 Like

just to keep a leash on every seal-clubber disguised as “but muh uptiers show my skillz”, keep in mind you can always equip your entire whole roster on BR1, 2, 3, or 4 gear, and put 1 BR5 weapon as secondary on any soldier, and BADAM! your roster is BR5!! up to BR5 you go! show us your skillz there, champ!

this is not about VOLUNTARY uptie, is about the non-volunteered cannon fodder.

1 Like

Idiots should sink or swim by there own stupidity, no one is forcing you to put the wrong gear in you’re lineup,
No I just want to try my new gear, then you can try asphalt

1 Like

It’s pretty bad for BR1

Matchmaking ±0 BR would kill Enlisted.
First, it would take us back to the era of campaigns — 5 non‑overlapping “campaigns” that would definitely not have enough online players. Even with the current matchmaking, there are a lot of bots in battles. And outside of prime time, matches may have only 1–2 live players on each side.
Second, most casual players are extremely cowardly and are afraid of battles with opponents who are equal in skill and equipment. But they really love bot farms. Therefore, during the campaigns, players from each faction would occupy 1–2 campaigns and base themselves there. For example, for the Soviets it was Moscow, for the Germans it was Berlin, and for the Allies it was Tunisia. Now, combat ratings perform a similar role: 3 BR for the Soviets and 5 BR for the Germans. The main mainers of the opposing factions simply don’t overlap with each other. And with matchmaking at ± 0, the situation will only get worse. And we will all be playing either against bots on the “main” br of our own faction, or in a team of bots against crowds of real players on the “main” br of the opposing faction.
That’s why I’m against matchmaking with ±0 br. The developers will never implement it anyway. The only realistic and truly useful measure to improve the situation is to isolate 5 br from 4 br.

The number of players in BR 5 is sufficient for individual matches. So please save BR 4, the forgotten corner. I’m already tired of having a 90% chance of being pulled up and then being used as a stepping stone by the OP equipment of BR 5 and getting trampled on.

3 Likes

at the moment, we have clearly more than enough population for 4 BR queues: BR1+2, BR2+3, BR3+4 and BR4+5. 4 queues: 20 players per match per queue.

saying we dont have enough players for 5 queues is saying we cant dispose of 5 players out of every 20 player match to make a new 20 player match. does anyone actually drinks Gaijin Kool-Aid so hard to believe so?

1 Like

Very well said, I fully agree with everything you say and I pray we can keep this thread alive and push the point home.

A fixed battle rating system of no up tiering would be a nice gesture by the devs after this halloween event debacle.

If the community comes together behind this then maybe we will see positive change.

Never say never.

I disagree with your stance on the campaign point, that divided the game into individual sections where youd only fight people in that specific campaign and no cross over. I dont see the issue with locking each tier against itself.

The argument is to just play the tier you want to play and have a fair fight. Vs getting put into a higher tier and slaughtered by people with better equipment than yourself.

This games battle system needs to change. Isolating the highest tier isnt the answer. It only works if it applies to all tiers.

I dont see a no up tiering killing this game, I dont see that happening. From the argument laid out it honestly seems like monetary gain is the only incentive to keep the up tiered battle system.

1 Like

I have provided a detailed justification for my opinion. Refute what I’ve said.

I did

The whole point of this thread is to avoid fighting players that are higher than yourself.

Locking tiers puts you on equal footing so the player isnt outclassed. Ofcourse theres going to be good or bad players regardless of the tier.

The game system already has alot of bots and thats fine, thats how matches go. You either fight on the tier you loaded into and their are only a handful of players and a load of bots or youre up tiered and fight people with superior equipment than yourself and you get stomped.

If anything id say ontop of locking the battle tier, increase the lobby limit from 10 v 10 to 20 v 20.

Youre not going to get away from the bot spam in this game. So i say increase it and leave it open for more people to join.

The whole crux of the argument is people are being thrown into matches they dont have much of a chance competing against due to the higher tier having the better weaponry and vehicles. So avoid it entirely by keeping things as equal as possible.

You can nake the argument “but then youre only going to fight the best people on x tier instead of people on x tier above”, sure thats true. But you have a better chance at a fair fight when the equipment your bringing in is on the same level as your opponent.

I do not see the concern with 0± battles. I fully support it. I dont think someone in tier 3 should beable to slaughter someone in tier 2, nor do I tier 3 should be thrown against tier 4. Just make things equal across the board.

This isnt going back to the campaign system of before because all the campaigns are combined now to an extent, so that lock out feature is gone. Though ill agree its not entirely gone since their are still “theaters” and certain factions can only fight certain factions. Which i would argue if anything a war thunder system of cross faction play should be explored, but thats a topic for a different thread.

2 Likes

You’ve misunderstood.
Players won’t be fighting each other. Instead, different factions will station themselves at various BRs and farm bots.

the best way to be sure: implement a one month long test on the main server with ±0. publish the results. let the people draw their own conclusion from the data.
simple. elegant. effective. oh wait, too much work: forget about it.

5 Likes