30 round ZB-26 magazine

[Valkay]

Hello bajtársak and fellow forumdwellers,
Some of you may be familiar with the ZB-26´s wikipedia page claiming that the ZB-26 used both 20 and 30 round magazines, however since no one ever seen German, Czech, Romanian or other troops use 30 round magazines, most dismiss the matter as a mistake or that the 30 round magazine belongs to its later variant, the Bren machine gun.

Well, the 30 round ZB-26 is actually real, but it was not used in the western world where the gun originates from, the larger magazine was made and used in China during the Chinese civil war and subsequent Second Sino-Japanese war.
It is not clear which arsenal produced the magazine and how many were made, but we can say with certainty that they are extremely rare now.

A little context:
The ZB-26 was originally developed in Czechoslovakia and was the most commercially popular light machine gun of its time. It was both imported and locally produced in numerous arsenals in China and was the most common light machine gun used by Chinese soldiers during the Chinese civil war and Second Sino-Japanese war.

The size of the 30 round magazine does not appear to be much longer than the 20 rounds magazine. At first I doubted the 30 rounds claim then realised that it is possible to fit 30 rounds if the magazine does away with the spring or uses a much weaker one which is perfectly possible considering that the magazine is mounted on the top and most of the work is done by gravity.

Chinese soldiers fighting along Jinpu rail line

Frankly, the 20 round ZB-26 magazine is overengineered and has a far more powerful spring tension than necessary for operation, so much so that the 20 round magazine can be loaded into a ZH-29 which is loaded from the bottom and yet the magazine will still perfectly and reliably load each round.
Now it is worth noting, that the 30 round ZB-26 will most certainly not work if loaded into a ZH-29 due to the lack of powerful spring tension.

A ZH-29 loaded with 20 rounds ZB-26 magazine
picture from Forgotten Weapons

Source:
China´s small arms of the Second-Sino Japanese War (1937-1945) - B. Shih

In my opinion this gun should be added as a machine gun in BR3 (see suggestion requirements…)
But you are free dispute this in the comments.

Would you like ZB-26 (30) added?

• Yes, I would
• No, I wouldnt

If yes, how should it be added?

• As event weapon
• As tech tree weapon
• As battle pass weapon
• As premium/event squad weapon

which faction should ZB-26 (30) get added to?

• Japanese faction
• Soviet faction (Communist China subfaction)

thank you for your time and attention

[Valkay]

I tried messing around with the polls, if something doesnt work, please let me know as soon as possible!

[Vril_RenDeyl88]

The game either thinks that 7,000 battles aren’t enough to trust me with a vote, or it mistook me for Automoton and democratically forbade me from voting.

Then I’ll say I’m in favor of introducing this weapon. It would be nice to make it similar to the Browning during the event.

[Valkay]

working on it, sorry.

[Comet92220]

@Vril_RenDeyl88

democratically forbade me from voting.

All forum members are equal, but some forum members are more equal than others.

[Valkay]

All polls should work as intended now.
@Vril_RenDeyl88 @ErikaKalkbrenner and @Ender_Fox Im sorry, I saw you guys vote but had to redo the polls due to a stupid mistake, could you please vote again if its not too much trouble.

[ErikaKalkbrenner]

@Valkay

which faction should ZB-26 (30) get added to?

why not both.

[Valkay]

could be possible I suppose, especially if one faction had an original Czech made and the other faction had a Chinese made copy.
I will try to look into Chinese made ZB-26s when I have more time.

[_DELAVR]

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@Valkay

Now it is worth noting, that the 30 round ZB-26 will most certainly not work if loaded into a ZH-29 due to the lack of powerful spring tension.

That’s a very strange claim. The magazine exists and was mass-produced; I see no reason why it couldn’t perform its function in the ZH-29 rifle. Given that it’s a semi-automatic, the requirements for the magazine are significantly more relaxed. While it’s true that it attaches to the ZH-29 from the bottom—meaning gravity acts negatively on the cartridges—I believe the semi-auto mode more than compensates for that.

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I’m not entirely sure, but this also looks like a Chinese ZB-26 with two magazines welded together; I’d imagine its capacity is ideally 40 rounds.

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Here is another interesting specimen. A Type 97 machine gun in the Beijing Museum with a 30-round magazine from a… Bren? I don’t know how well that works or if it’s just a mistake made by the museum staff.

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Honestly, the ZB-26 should ideally be given its correct rate of fire of 600 rounds per minute (and perhaps a higher sprint speed in exchange, due to its low mass?). As for Japan, I don’t see much point in this machine gun. I’d rather see the ‘Model Otsu’ machine gun from the Type 96 trials, which is literally a Japanese copy of the ZB-26 (which later became the Type 97 machine gun).

Parameter	Value
Overall Length	1,150 mm
Barrel Length	550 mm
Total Weight	9.000 kg
Barrel Weight	2.500 kg
Magazine Weight (Empty / Loaded)	450 g / 1.080 kg
Muzzle Velocity (at 25m)	743 m/s
Rate of Fire	530–650 RPM

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[Valkay]

@_DELAVR

That’s a very strange claim.

I base my claim on the size of the magazine.
If you take a close look at the 30 round magazine, it isnt proportionally longer than the original 20 round magazine so Im pretty sure that it saves space by having a much weaker spring or no spring at all.

I also find it very unlikely that Chinese factories at the time could make magazines of better quality than Brno, that could support more rounds with more spring compression.

[Valkay]

@_DELAVR

isnt this a Type 77 machine gun?
It kinda looks like a bastardchild of ZB-26 and ZB-30J

[_DELAVR]

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@Valkay

I base my claim on the size of the magazine.
If you take a close look at the 30 round magazine, it isnt proportionally longer than the original 20 round magazine so Im pretty sure that it saves space by having a much weaker spring or no spring at all.

I also find it very unlikely that Chinese factories at the time could make magazines of better quality than Brno, that could support more rounds with more spring compression.

The Chinese were even producing machine guns as complex as the Madsen… My point is, they weren’t fools and I’m sure they knew what they were doing. I’ll certainly grant that these [magazines] might have been unreliable in some cases or performed worse than the 20-round ones, but I believe that since they existed, they were more than capable of doing their job.

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Oh, I completely forgot—besides the Model Otsu, there were also ZB-26s, presumably modified by the Mukden Arsenal, chambered in 6.5mm and using Type 96 magazines. It would also be much more suitable for the Japanese faction.

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@Valkay

isnt this a Type 77 machine gun?
It kinda looks like a bastardchild of ZB-26 and ZB-30J

The Type 77 machine gun features a horizontal magazine.

听说过“七七式”轻机枪吗？这是一把“勿忘国耻”之枪！_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

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[传说巨神伊迪安]

I think there should be a vote to add this weapon to the US faction, since it was purchased and used by the Nationalist Chinese forces.

There are too many Japan apologists on the forum. Germany only used Polish and Czech weapons after fully annexing those countries. China was never conquered and eventually won the war, yet people still want to treat China as a backup equipment source for Japan. It would make more sense to first add Chinese puppet squads with their proper weapons, or add Thailand as a faction.

As for the 30-round magazine, I can already see arguments: some will say it deserves BR3 alongside the BAR, while others will claim a 40-round version should go to BR4.

[Valkay]

@传说巨神伊迪安

a 40-round version should go to BR4.

I dont think the powergap would be big enough to justify the 40 version being on BR4.
There are already very powerful machine guns on BR3 like the MG34 so it should be fine.

@传说巨神伊迪安

Nationalist Chinese forces.

I really wish China had its own match making, there is nothing I hate more in this game is when Chinese soldiers are sent to Europe or North Africa instead of fighting the Japanese.
I think most people support Japan getting Chinese weapons for this reason. Though Japan having the least guns is also an issue.

I would suggest Chinese guns directly to Chinese tech tree if I could, but sadly, it seems to me that devs have no interest in that and instead want to crave up Chinese guns between Allies, Soviets and Japan (against which I cant do anything).

[传说巨神伊迪安]

Back in the day, the Nationalist army took a liking to the ZB-26 Czech light machine gun. In 1934, they adopted it as their standard light machine gun and bought over 30,000 original units from the Czech Brno Arms Factory. Later, several major Chinese arsenals reverse-engineered and produced copies. The main ones were the 21st Arsenal in Chongqing and the 41st Arsenal in Guangdong. The Dagu Shipyard in Tianjin, Taiyuan Arsenal, and Zhejiang Iron Works also made copies. In total, more than 70,000 were built during the Anti-Japanese War—these are what we call the Chinese-made Czech ZB-26. So there were two types of ZB-26 in China: imported originals and formal copies from large government arsenals. The Eighth Route Army and New Fourth Army mainly obtained them through capture, and also made rough copies in base-area arsenals. The most famous was the Huangyadong Arsenal in Licheng, Shanxi. The Jiaodong Arsenal in Shandong and repair shops in the Jizhong base area also produced them. Conditions were basic, but the guns were still functional.

What’s infuriating is that the Czechs cheated the Nationalist government from start to finish. The Nationalists tried to buy production rights and blueprints, but the Czechs refused completely, only providing a single inspection sample. All core technology and patents were kept secret, forcing China to reverse-engineer by taking guns apart. Even worse, many of the guns sold were refurbished second-hand ones from the Czech army, not brand new. When Germany occupied Czechoslovakia in 1939, the Brno factory fell under Nazi control, and supplies of spare parts and new guns were completely cut off. Every broken ZB-26 was a permanent loss.

By contrast, the Japanese battle pass weapon in the game, the Hotchkiss M1897, is a completely different story. In 1897, Japan tested 4 M1897s and decided the gas-operated, strip-fed design suited them better than the Maxim. In 1901, Japan bought full production rights and complete technology transfer. France not only provided all blueprints and technical data, but also sent engineers to train the Japanese. They even modified the design to 6.5mm to match Japanese ammunition, and provided full production line equipment and standards.

With full technology in hand, Japan produced them at major facilities like the Tokyo and Osaka Artillery Arsenals. They first became the “Ho-shiki machine gun,” then evolved into the Type 38, Type 3, and finally the Type 92 heavy machine gun. France openly provided full technology, production lines, and support—the complete opposite of how the Czechs treated China.

That’s why Japan could keep improving the Hotchkiss design on its own, even basing the Type 11 (the “crooked neck” light machine gun) on this French gun. Meanwhile, China could only reverse-engineer the ZB-26 by taking it apart. The Nationalist government was blocked and restricted at every step when buying Czech weapons.

This is the brief history of the ZB machine gun that I’ve put together.

[传说巨神伊迪安]

Let’s be real, the ZB‑26 is an early machine gun, and its magazine blocks half the view from the hip. With such fundamental flaws, it can’t get much stronger no matter how you buff its stats. We’ve been hyped up for half a year and seen seasonal logos, but it’s a shame the KE7 (50-round) is still in BR4 — a gun that’s clearly worse than the MG34, let alone the MG42. It’s ridiculous.

In my opinion, instead of just putting Chinese weapons straight into the Japanese tech tree, they should be added as captured weapons, clearly labeled, just like the captured BAR from the previous pre-order pack. That’s far more logical and historically accurate.

Besides, the ZB‑26 has many variants, so we could do three versions at once:

• 30-round mag as a rare event weapon in BR2
• 40-round mag in a premium squad
• Original 20-round version for the Chinese Communist squads on the Soviet faction

Everything fits its place, historically authentic and without breaking the balance.

My biggest concern right now is that every time they add something for Japan, it’s one less left they can use. Their content pool is clearly running dry. I’m worried that once Japan has nothing left to update, all other nations’ updates will have to wait for them.

[Ender_Fox]

It would be more appropriate to give this light machine gun to the Chinese Expeditionary Force machine gun squad within the American faction

[Valkay]

I did not realise there was such a big interest in getting more National Revolutionary Army squads. Next time I will include Koumintang subfaction in the polls.

[传说巨神伊迪安]

In the Chinese theater of World War II, the Nationalist army was indeed the main force fighting Japan on the main front. For example, the large number of German-equipped divisions, Soviet-equipped divisions, and various armored vehicles they purchased from abroad all belonged to the Nationalist army.

It was not until 1941, after the Nationalist government turned to actively anti-communism and launched the Southern Anhui Incident, that the Communist Party of China began to play an even greater role. After that, huge numbers of Nationalist troops defected to Japan and became puppet soldiers. There were so many of them that it almost seemed normal for Japan to have an entire army made up of Chinese collaborators.

[Valkay]

And after the war many of the collaborators, the “puppet” troops joined the Communists after the war because the Nationalist would kill them on sight. The communists were happy to take in trained men with firearms, most “puppet” troops had no motivation to fight against their Chinese compatriots.