Let me introduce you to the Type Hei Rifle then. It’s a 6.5 x50mm Arisaka rifle based off of a Pederson rifle that was used on Okinawa and was captured by Marines. It has two versions, a long and a short version, with the short version being about as long as the Arrmaguerra and the long version being about as long as the Carcano M1891, meaning they could match the Carbine and Garand respectively.
No concrete proof, unlike the Type Hei Rifle.
See the bit about the Type Hei rifle.
Yet another prototype, but hey atleast it maybe was used.
6.5 ? Regardless it has somewhat decent terminal ballistics, your going to need some serioys harry potter style black magic trickery to make it match garand’s.
Well for mkb42(h) theres soviet research documents regarding this gun.
Does type hei have similar evidence of its existence or are we going to argue it was left there by civilians and never saw actual usage ?
Oh yeah 1 SA definitely will balance the campaign.
The same level of black magic to make the Carcano M1895 ballistics match the Lee-Enfield’s.
There are inventory reports from the Marines that list a “Captured Pederson Rifle”, and yes there are also American research documents about the Type Hei Rifle, although they called it something more along the lines of “Nippon Special Steel Pederson Rifle”, with the name Type Hei rifle meing a more recent convention.
What else do you need? SFs are completely optional, SMGs can be filled whith import models and ultimately don’t matter in the jungles of the Pacific, and the Japanese have LMGs that are more than enough to match the Americans. Tanks are no problem because like the devs pulled the Panzer III B to the front for balance, they can do that with the Chi-Nu to match the Sherman, and that is the strongest tank the Americans fielded was the Sherman, that would make the final matchup basically the M4A2 against the Panzer IV J, and with Armoured cars and the LVT(A)s, tanks can be balanced. Planes are also not an issue, with the Japanese arguably fielding some of the best planes of the war throughout the course of the war.
Well in theory great idea. But we don´t need no new campaings (this or pacific) to divide even more the low player base of the game.
so after all japanese dont have all that much “own” equipment that would be entirely new, unique and never seen ingame before.
This is yet again the panzer 3b actually being in use.
No doubt, but as majority of people do cas →
this argument rather effectively makes both tanks & planes rather useless.
So we’re yet again looking at the rather lacking japanese infantry arsenal, even if we add the never used prototypes they still dont offer anything worth the grinding.
so much spam and unusable weapons, but cause list is long it actually looks impressive. most machineguns are just too heavy for game. you have AA machine guns also that are also too heavy. and 20 pistol models that really arent even that important overall.
most used rifles were actually mosin nagants and its variants. for semi automatic rifles you only have SVT-38 and SVT-40. for auto you have AVS-36 and AVT-40.
rest of the models while are just loads of BA-s that are either obsolete, issued to non combatants, issued to reserve, or issued to artillery troops. they were in rather small quantities and front line troops didnt actually use them.
so overall winter war campaign doesnt bring anything to table, unless you want to have make believe campaign with hundreds of ww2 weapons cause someone had that rifle at home and it was technically in that war.
Currently the BA’s in general are unusable exception being stalingrad with ohk.
Maxim variants ? Arent they already in stalingrad & worth noting is that finnish maxim has higher rof than regular ussr versions.
Light machine gun Kg m/1921
Kg m/40 automatic rifle
& lahti m26 definitely aint too heavy.
Quite heavily modified ones and not exactly comparable to regular moist nugget in terms of accuracy & barrel thickness etc etc etc.
Which aint even necessary, if devs introduce the ohk BA’s.
Also, just add continuation war in same equation and prototypes can easily be used.
At the end of winter war there werent exactly reserves, back line troops nor artillery troops.
They were all frontline troops.
Well you can read the descriptions of each gun, hardly a guns what ppl had home.
And this is pretty much exactly same case with pacific.
they are ok on first few levels. we need level based MM and they will be perfectly usable.
i am not aware of any maxim variants in stalingrad.
you put something like 15 machineguns of which most weigh 20+kg and even one that has 100kg weight with tripod (50 without). most ingame machineguns are 10kg, with heaviest about 13kg.
but it is more or less same gun. players want shiny new toys, not 1 gun reskined 50 times with slightly different stats. we already have few/enough variants in soviet campaign.
but they must be added for game balance. you cant have semi autos and autos without its counterpart. so you will just have same weapons on soviet and finnish side.
7,62 mm Rifle M/1895 Winchester:
Finnish use: Thousands used in Finnish Civil War of 1918, issued to home front troops and some artillery units during Winter War. The rifles did not really see any real use Continuation War.Being ratherscarce and having shortage of spare parts they were mostly mothballed until 1939. During this time large amount of M/1895 were transferred to non-military authorities and small amounts were also sold to civilian market. During Winter War some were issued to artillery units and home-front troops. In summer of 1940 less than 1,700 remained
10,67 mm Infantry Rifle M/1870 Berdan (Berdan II):
Only very small number used issued to supplies units may have briefly seen actual combat use.
6,55 mm Infantry Rifle and Carbine M/97 Japanese:
Suffering from even more disastrous shortage of rifles than United Kingdrom the Russians could not afford to issue the Japanese rifles that they bought in such a limited scale. So they issued Japanese rifles also as part of usual weaponry issued mainly to their non-frontline units - and this included their troops stationed in Finland.
6,55 mm Rifle M/02 Japanese:
During World War 2 used in small numbers by Finnish merchant navy and home front troops.
6,55 mm Infantry Rifle and Carbine M/05 Japanese:
The last few hundred Japanese rifles, which still remained in Finland in year 1939 were issued to Finnish merchant navy and home front units during World War 2 and presumably saw no real combat action
7,35 mm Rifle M/38 “Terni”:
When Continuation War started Finnish military issued M/38 rifles were mainly to non-frontline troops like field artillery, air-defence, coastal artillery and supplies units. Later after attacks of Soviet partisans to civilian targets become common, they were also issued to civilians of remote villages close to eastern border to provide them means for self-defence.
pacific is major theater of war, while winter war is not. even sino-japanese war is more logical than winter war.
yeah, at low levels.
Which are perfectly fine as engineer / AA guns / fixed positions.
Also the 3 ^ above mentioned are light machineguns and theres plenty of other imported light mgs.
So at pacific we’re looking at few lmg’s and 2 obsolete smg’s.
Unless arisaka bolt-actions has something so drastically different from other BA rifles that its not just another reskinned BA.
Like Ppsh’s counterpart in moscow used to be m38 with 20mag.
Or pz3J against t34
Its not like first time in history of enlisted that certain guns dont have proper counter for it. Or counter at all.
Which can be rather easily fixed by adding continuation war along winter war.
Its quite irrelevant was pacific a major war or not if theres absolutely nothing worth grinding for.
Yep, there we’re less than 10k? ppd’s manufactured during 1934-1939
And suddenly during and after winterwar the production increased quite drastically.
Argument:
inspired ussr to developed smg’s
Argument dismantled:
SMGs were being developed even before the WW, drum mags included, see picture above.
Which part you failed to understand ?
Ppd-34/38 is actually the version that had modified copy of kp-31 drum mag, which had feeding neck in order to function in 34/48.
And as you can see in PPd40 the gun itself is modified in order to fit the copied drum mag without the feeding neck.
You failed to word your argument properly in the first place if your idea was that WW experience made the USSR produce SMGs in higher numbers.
Your statement about quote “WW inspired the USSR to develop SMGs” is simply false.
Because they had ppd34, in numbers Less than 10k and due to winter war they began to develope ppd34/38 that had modified magazine and Ppd40 that could take the magazine without modification.
AND increase the production by absolute shit ton after and during winter war.
So how is this argument wrong ?
Literally that’s how:
Argument:
inspired ussr to developed smg’s
Argument dismantled:
SMGs were being developed even before the WW, drum mags included, see picture above.
You can’t begin to develop a 1938 gun after 1939-40 war.
The only smg soviets had when winter war began was ppd34 stick mag ( Less than 10k produced )
Fun fact, soviets did not even send smg’s to frontline when winterwar began but later as war progressed.
Ppd34/38 has modified copied drum mag of Kp31
Ppd40 developement began during / after winterwar.
So you gave 3 example weapons and developement 2 of them is direct result of winter war.
You mean like t-34 tank which production began 1940 ?
No. PPD 34/38 was adopted in and produced from 1938.
No. SMGs were being developed in the USSR long before WW.
I mean its even in wikipedia.
During the Winter War in 1939 with Finland, an acute lack of individual automatic weapons even led to the reintroduction of the stockpiled Fedorov Avtomats into service.[7]
In 1938 and 1940, modifications were designated PPD-34/38 and PPD-40 respectively, and introduced minor changes, mostly aimed at making it easier to manufacture. Mass production began in 1940, a year in which 81,118 PPDs were produced.
Yes wikipedia:
After extensive tests in 1935-37 the weapon was upgraded by 1938-39, with introduction of the metal guide cup (or “clip guide”), which was welded to the magazine housing, increasing reliability of the magazine fastening, as well as making the magazines interchangeable between different weapons. This designation was transcribed as “1934/38 Degtyarev submachine gun”. It was also sometimes referred to as the “2nd sample”, and the 1934 edition as the “1st sample”.
Hence:
No. PPD 34/38 was adopted in and produced from 1938.
No. SMGs were being developed in the USSR long before WW.
You can’t keep making new arguments you didn’t make originally.
The one you made was false.
