Winter War campaign

The first trials were unsuccessful. PPD’s rate of fire was too fast (about 1000 shots per minute), recoil was unmanageable, so it took Degtyaryov another five years to work the bugs out of his design.

In 1935 PPD was officially accepted into service as a Personal Defence Weapon for NCOs and officers up to the company commander level. But production rates remained very low:
in 1936, Kovrov factory produced 911 PPDs,
in 1937 – 1291,
in 1938 – 1115,
and in 1939 – 1700. Several modifications were made over the years.

Red Army generals could not decide what role SMGs should have in the armament system, one of the arguments they had was (quote): “Americans and Germans regard SMG unfit for military service and only use them in police and security units”.

Production remained low and in 1939 artillery department of Red Army made an incoherent decision to stop production of PPDs and decommission all SMGs from active duty troops. Artillery department was displeased with the relatively high production cost of PPDs and suggested that “new automatic weapon should be developed to potentially replace PPD”. Needless to say, no alternative to PPDs was offered.

Just 9 months after this “ingenious” decision was made, “Winter War” started. Finns had a reliable and effective Suomi M31 submachinegun which they used very effectively against Soviet troops.

After Red Army experienced the effectiveness of SMGs during the first months of the Winter War, all available automatic weapons were given back to active duty troops. The need for automatic weapons was so great, that even Fedorov battle rifles were issued to the troops for the first time since World War I and Civil War.

Soviet soldiers really liked Suomi M31 SMGs they managed to capture. Overall, M31 Suomi impressed Soviets so much, that, according to the memoirs of General Vannikov, Joseph Stalin asked him once: “Can we maybe start production of Suomi SMGs in the Soviet Union?” General convinced Stalin to resume production of PPD, not knowing what consequences it would have for the factory.

Stalin took the production of PPDs under his “direct control”. The factory was given completely impossible tasks and deadlines. When deadlines were not met, a group of NKVD officers, Stalin’s secret police, was sent to the plant to “investigate suspicious individuals who were bought off by enemies of the state”. At the time, it meant only one thing – arrests based on false accusations and and executions.

Director of the factory and chief design engineer were arrested, and Stalin himself wrote a letter promising (quote): “If deadlines are not met, the government will take the manufacturing plant under special control and execute all the bastards clogging up the factory”.

Mass production began in 1940, a year in which 81,118 PPDs were produced.

Nice wall of text but the fact is: WW did not inspire USSR to develop SMGs.

Countering any other numbers and points is strawman argumentation.


And just for anyone interested, the Red Army decided:
The development of a new type of automatic weapon with pistol ammunition was to be continued for the possible replacement of the obsolete design of the PPD.

That is, no refusal of the submachine gun as a type of weapon, as it appears in some sources, was intended, on the contrary - the development of its more perfect and suitable for mass production model, which was supposed to arm a large number of servicemen.

They have enough of everything else to make up for it.

15 of the built, all of them used for training.

No, the Japanese have got enough domestically built LMGs to easily balance things out and be intresting.

(It has been noted that many of the high-ranking Soviet officers of that time were very much against submachine guns). Because of this only 4,174 PPD-34 and PPD-34/38 submachine guns were manufactured before Winter War. February of 1939 Soviet Red Army even stopped manufacturing of these submachine guns and gathered existing weapons from their troops and put them on storage.

Yeah, introduction of ppd40 and mass manufacturing during ww is just coincident.

Regardless pretty much every source says different.

what else ? BA’s ? Aint going to grind just for few “new” BA’s
Semi-autos ? Well, 1 and that aint exactly worth the grind
SMG’s ? Goes without saying theyr quite lack lusters compared tommy guns theyd be facing
LMG ? Well they aint intresting in any campaign due to massive nerfs they received in past

The first 8 built Panzer III Ausf.Bs were ready for distribution by August of 1937. Six of these would be given to the Putlos tank training school. The remaining two would be given to the 5th Panzer Regiment. The last two vehicles built, when completed, were allocated to the 1st Panzer Regiment at the end of 1937.

Despite being built in small numbers, the Panzer III Ausf.B would see some action during the war. Due to the lack of more modern tanks, the Germans were forced to use some Panzer III Ausf.Bs for the invasion of Poland in 1939. The majority (if not all) Ausf.B vehicles that were damaged or required a major overhaul were retired from service and instead given to training units after February 1940.

Yea, cant wait to struggle in jungle with bipods as even deploying bipod to windows is still absolutely pain in the ass.

Thanks for the new suggestions

IMO winter war needs ‘unique’ mechanics instead ‘reskinned’ weapons like BA’s etc

Finns didnt have many tanks so give them some ‘assault engineers’ and improved molotovs instead tank squads.

And make soviet tanks vulnerable to molotovs. After all finns ‘invented’ that name

yes, remember that as now the motor grill is considered equal to actual armor, they should definetely make it more vulnerable to molotovs.
Another interesting idea could be buildable anti tank mines that can be remotely detonated.

I have come up with a few points regarding Winter War and wondering if anyone in this thread thinks the same ?

I think it would be fun, especially since I main Soviets so bring it on :). Plus the Finns deserve some recognition, they were and still are great warriors!
A few things make me think this is a very real possibility;

  1. People have been asking for this for over a year
  2. War thunder just dropped a Finnish (sub) tech tree which also falls under the Gaijin umbrella, giving the Enlisted devs access to some of the unique tier 1-2 Finnish and Red army stuff they may not have introduced yet in Moscow.
  3. A couple of premium squads have featured Finnish small arms already (German Stalingrad assaulters kick butt!)
  4. The devs just dropped another campaign featuring the Western allies against a new axis faction, so going back to Eastern Europe for a Soviet campaign kinda makes sense.
  5. Also, like it is said on this thread, there are more Finnish things in the files that aren’t implemented yet :slight_smile: I hope both sides get ski troops!

People ask a lot.

There is more stuff than just tanks and two or three planes… in case it was not used during the Finnish front in Barbarossa.

We also have French squads and guns, yet we dont need France.

No, because it would be Germany for the sixth 1/2 time now and the Soviet gear would be the same. And especially not the Winter War, where we would play with Moscow gear.

Bunch of rifles, HMG we cant really use here apart from Tier II MG nest and ehhh rifles again. Dont know how cool it is to grind for two or three free Suomis.

Ugh, to lazy to respond to the counter points. However, it is worth considering we will be getting a new campaign anyhow because Snail and it is likely either this or maybe invasion of France? Don’t you think?

Well. WW2 is over satisfied. At this point we have everything apart from early Allies gear (which is also partly satisfied with Tunisia). But especially Germany is overused and Japan… the Devs decided to give them one campaign for mid and late-war campaigns, which underlines their opinion about the Pacific. So I don’t think we can count on Japan, let alone Sino-Jap. War since they are already afraid of anti-cubism laws in Russia, so I doubt they wanna make Winnie Puh angry as well.
Idk maybe it’s just me but at some point I can’t see the MPs anymore or the PPShs. I know there are some Soviet fanboys who could play any campaign as long as they have the Soviets, even if it is a complete-unbalanced campaign, which would Moscow look like a perfect campaign.

Best shot: Kursk, Bulge or Rhine 45 and maybe France 1940, but not because of Germany and partly the USSR, but because of the Western Allies, but even that is questionable.

We should leave WW2 and go with Korea and maybe the Spanish Civil War unless it’s also too much cubism. Mostly new stuff, Soviet vs. Western Allies theme and not another MP40. Or go alt-historical and go with Operation Unthinkable

Agree lest do korea