Why gray zone tanks suck Vol 1

[Shadowspite]

Why Gray Zone Tanks suck, let me count the ways:

1. Being nearly impossible to kill except using META (e.g. immersion breaking/not-working-as-intended) ways - it’s just a straight up broken game mechanic.

2. See 1. Above and add that it means those in said tank almost always occupy said tank until the end of the match, preventing others from getting to use their tanks.

3. Often, said gray zone tank occupiers have no skills, and thus, add nothing to the team and or occupy a valuable slot and single handedly giveaway the game to the other side. One wonders if they WANT the opponent to win.

4. No Gray Zone tank has EVER won a team an offensive match.
   4a. A gray zone tank on defense might keep your team’s objectives safe. But, your team is still dependent on soldiers to occupy said defensive point. And even the idea that they’re killing some opponents on a point from a distance, it’s impossible to kill all of them.

5. Gray Zone tank users are score whores who only care about themselves. (This is debatable but you know some people think it regardless.)

6. Given that it’s often impossible to tell where the Gray zone is, there are certainly some cases where “gray zone tanking” is unintended. How can a player avoid this?

Perhaps approach the objective. Not saying to GET ON IT (though that sometimes happens to good or bad effect) but at least being around it draws enemy fire and is a great way for suppressive fire in the game.

Some folks will be intimidated from running onto a strategic point when staring down the barrel of a tank. Lot of enemies can be killed at close range, particularly in a good tank for that battle rating. Whether on offense or defense a tank within about 50-80M of the point (behind, beside, or in front of), it’s lethal to the opponents and a help to friendly soldiers.

In any case, I’m aware that this is a game mechanic right now - and an imperfect one at best, and am not suggesting changes - as I imagine Darkflow is aware that it’s a pretty weird situation.

I just find it hilarious when people defend this immersion breaking, unrealistic situation and act like they’re doing anyone but themselves any favors.

[LokalHero]

• Volume 2…

I’ll refer you to this post.

Why Greyzone Camping Is A Problem

For the people who don’t yet understand the issue, here it is. Little red tank sits well behind the grey wall, mostly safe, if not completeley invulnerable, to any attack. Little red tank has full range of the spawn point AND the flag point. He/She/It can just spam HE at will and prevent any movement from the spawn. Yes. This is an exploit. Yes. This is unfair to the attacking side. Yes. If you defend this practice, you’re part of the problem. Yes. This type of match warrants desertion, wh…

[LuciferPDX]

I agree with you 100% this is definitely an issue that need’s to be addressed but I am not sure what the best approach is in doing so. I’ve noticed the developers will nerf this or that in order to fix a certain exploit but I wonder to myself instead of nerfing maybe they should just ip ban the individuals participating in such activity it not like they contribute anything to the community and they most definitely won’t be missed.

[LokalHero]

@LuciferPDX

instead of nerfing maybe they should just ip ban the individuals participating in such activity

Hmm. This might be tricky as it would depend on other players reporting them and could lead to some people abusing the reporting mechanic. I can already imagine having to watch a million replays to confirm the reports!

[khtk395]

@Shadowspite

Often, said gray zone tank occupiers have no skills, and thus, add nothing to the team and or occupy a valuable slot and single handedly giveaway the game to the other side. One wonders if they WANT the opponent to win.

Most tank come out of grey zone blows up rather quickly, most of them are worst then grey zone people.

@Shadowspite

• No Gray Zone tank has EVER won a team an offensive match.
  4a. A gray zone tank on defense might keep your team’s objectives safe. But, your team is still dependent on soldiers to occupy said defensive point. And even the idea that they’re killing some opponents on a point from a distance, it’s impossible to kill all of them.

Nonsense, I see many match that greyzone tank help to win the match. You can’t capture a point with tank and how is closer to the point help you kill the enemy with tank? You get limited field of view leading to worse killing efficiency.

@Shadowspite

but at least being around it draws enemy fire

To get blow up instantly?

@Shadowspite

and is a great way for suppressive fire in the game.

You can do suppressive fire from grey zone.

@Shadowspite

and act like they’re doing anyone but themselves any favors.

Lol I know you hate grey zone tank, but saying it is ineffective is just a lame excuse that doesn’t make sense. Why would you hate enemy grey zone tank if it is ineffective in the first place?

[GeneralBrus]

tanks inside the grey zone are still in range to AT weapons.

Panzerfausts can reliably take out tanks at even 200 meters distance - with some practice though.

the only issue with grey zone tanks is that US and Japan dont have a high BR AT launcher.

[LuciferPDX]

yeah I guess I never thought about it in that way… with that being said what can they do about it? Maybe allow Artilliary strikes in grey zone areas??

[LokalHero]

That too could be open to abuse.

Personally I think shots from the greyzone shouldn’t count, just like it is for defenders when they’re falling back (the little shield icon). And perhaps once you leave the greyzone, you can’t return to it.

Just my tuppence though, I don’t know what the devs have planned.

[Never_Flaccid]

@Shadowspite

Whether on offense or defense a tank within about 50-80M of the point (behind, beside, or in front of), it’s lethal to the opponents and a help to friendly soldiers.

I’m supposed to park this no turret, no mg, tank destroyer 50-80m from the cap?

What about this thing that only have 1 low RoF turret mg with low turret rotation speed?

What about open top vehicles?

[Shadowspite]

@khtk395

Most tank come out of grey zone blows up rather quickly, most of them are worst then grey zone people.

Shadowspite:

False. I try to approach the strategic point all the time I’m in a tank. Maybe in high BR this is the case, as I don’t play there, but it’s absolutely not the case in low BR.

Maybe you just are one of the aforementioned people who can’t play a tank well.

@khtk395

Nonsense, I see many match that greyzone tank help to win the match. You can’t capture a point with tank and how is closer to the point help you kill the enemy with tank? You get limited field of view leading to worse killing efficiency.

Already gave the reasons. And no tank EVER took a strategic point. EVER. It’s literally impossible.

Stop defending weak ass game tactics.

@khtk395

To get blow up instantly?

Get gud.

@khtk395

You can do suppressive fire from grey zone.

Not very well. You can SNIPE from the gray zone. See above: Weak ass.

@khtk395

Lol I know you hate grey zone tank, but saying it is ineffective is just a lame excuse that doesn’t make sense. Why would you hate enemy grey zone tank if it is ineffective in the first place?

See above: It’s sniping, weak ass, abuse of a faulty game mechanic. It also ONLY helps yourselves and the weak ass players who defend the practice who want to sit in a position that only a suicidal plane can take out.

I get that there are times when players don’t even realize they are in the gray zone. It happens. Probably a lot. Even so, no tank ever took over a strategic position.

You know this. And if you defend it, you too, are a weak ass player who deserves zero respect.

[Shadowspite]

@LokalHero

Personally I think shots from the greyzone shouldn’t count, just like it is for defenders when they’re falling back (the little shield icon). And perhaps once you leave the greyzone, you can’t return to it.

That’s actually a really good solution.

As I mention above, a player may not even realize they are in the gray zone. Constantly missing their shots is a good indication that they’re too far away. As it is, sometimes tanks get the indicator that they’re aiming perfectly (and that’s certainly not some magic WWII technique that was available then).

But, not allowing shots to hit eliminates the problem and even more emphasizes the point about how little a tank in the back helps the TEAM as opposed to the individual player trying to rack up points w/out risk.

[Shadowspite]

@Never_Flaccid

I’m supposed to park this no turret, no mg, tank destroyer 50-80m from the cap?

Note, I was talking tanks and not anti-tank weapons.

Even so, your point is well taken. But, tanks DO have a lot more protection against infantry than an open top tank destroyer does.

[khtk395]

@Shadowspite

False. I try to approach the strategic point all the time I’m in a tank. Maybe in high BR this is the case, as I don’t play there, but it’s absolutely not the case in low BR.

Lol, I said most of the player not you.

@Shadowspite

Already gave the reasons. And no tank EVER took a strategic point. EVER. It’s literally impossible.

All tank can’t cap a point, so what is the point of mentioning grey zone tank?

@Shadowspite

Get gud.

Maybe stop farming newbies on low br?

@Shadowspite

Not very well. You can SNIPE from the gray zone. See above: Weak ass.

Yeah comparing sniper rifle with a cannon, what a genius.

@Shadowspite

See above: It’s sniping, weak ass, abuse of a faulty game mechanic. It also ONLY helps yourselves and the weak ass players who defend the practice who want to sit in a position that only a suicidal plane can take out.

I get that there are times when players don’t even realize they are in the gray zone. It happens. Probably a lot. Even so, no tank ever took over a strategic position.

You know this. And if you defend it, you too, are a weak ass player who deserves zero respect.

Lol you are just a player that come here and rant because your enemy grey zone tank is annoying.
There is rarely anyone discuss about counter enemy sniper since they are weak, but many players are discussing on counter grey zone tank because they are strong. Why would you even bother to counter grey zone tank if they are weak in the first place?

[LuciferPDX]

this is a good idea

[Never_Flaccid]

@Shadowspite

But, tanks DO have a lot more protection against infantry than an open top tank destroyer does.

This is technically correct, but in practice most tanks are very much vulnerable to infantry.

The current tanks that have hull armor above the track all have it less than 35 mm in thickness. Explosion pack have an armor penetration of 35 mm and 2.5 m kill radius. It can easily detonate the the ammo racks stored above each track.

I pick explosive pack as an example as it is the most common anti tank grenade available to all soldier class.

Only a few tanks can fulfill the role of close infantry support as you’ve mentioned, they are tank that does not have thin armor above the tracks, i.e. the A.C.I, and the KV-1 variants are all very hard to destroy using explosive packs.

Tankers stay in the gray because otherwise they will instantly get destroyed by explosive packs especially when they’re 50 m from the cap.

[Shadowspite]

@khtk395

All tank can’t cap a point, so what is the point of mentioning grey zone tank?

Because winning the game should be the objective of every player. If everyone on a team had that goal, there’d be a lot less frustration from this team game.

Gray zone sniping is the “case in point” (e.g. prime example) of being a solo player in a team game.

Besides, I’m just here to shame all the asshats that take pride in sniping in a huge invulnerable beast when everyone else realizes they’re weak ass players. Also, I’ve actually gone so far as to, if we’re close to capping and I’m in there with 5 people in my tank - hop out of the tank and help cap. I’ve helped win matches that way. Not often, probably only a couple times, but it sure beats LOSING THE MATCH b/c someone is in the back sniping. Whether in a tank or with a rifle.

At least noobs with a rifle have the excuse they’re a noob. What’s the excuse of someone in BR5 who does it?

Weak ass.

@khtk395

Maybe stop farming newbies on low br?

I’ve only been playing the game 3 months. I can’t even wield a full team of BR3, much less 4 or 5.

@khtk395

Yeah comparing sniper rifle with a cannon, what a genius.

This is a common meme on this forum and in the game. Sniping, whether with a sniper rifle or a tank is the same, except the person doing it in the tank is more commonly in the gray zone and worse, in a FRICKIN TANK and can’t be killed. Definition of snipe: " 1. To shoot at individuals from a concealed place."

yeah, I’m a frickin genius.

@khtk395

Lol you are just a player that come here and rant because your enemy grey zone tank is annoying.
There is rarely anyone discuss about counter enemy sniper since they are weak, but many players are discussing on counter grey zone tank because they are strong. Why would you even bother to counter grey zone tank if they are weak in the first place?

I’m ranting here b/c that’s what one does in a forum. Yes, gray zone tank is annoying. It’s also a weak tactic since the person defending this practice is assuming the person in the tank KNOWS they are invulnerable. I’m at least giving the benefit of the doubt that not everyone knows it’s even happening.

The game surely tells you when you’re in a zone and need to get out of it. They should do the same with tanks that are invulnerable to everything except suicide planes. And sure, there are some AT that can hit 200M away, but not in low BR matches.

As for the “weak” - I will assume English or American slang is not your first language. (No insult intended - I only speak English so am automatically impressed by anyone who knows more than one language.) But “weak ass” is not saying the attack itself is weak or “ineffectual”. It’s merely say that the attack itself is weak tactic b/c it’s someone who’s abusing a situation that exists b/c this game is still in Beta. And that abuse ONLY benefits the single player, by and large it does nothing for the team to win.

How many of us have been on teams where we see the score leader on the LOSING side has the most kills? Whether in a plane the whole match or in a tank in the back?

THAT is a problem. If they were so good at the game, why didn’t they put their effort into winning instead of just making a high score?

I look at scores at the end. I give mad respect to those players who are high scorers AND getting strategic point captures and building rally points, and the rest. I want those players on my team.

And, I give zero respect to players who do nothing but pilot a plane or sit in the back in a tank.

One other point on that - it’s SELFISH. Both for the point whoring AND for taking a tank slot the whole game and no one else gets to enjoy a tank that match.

[Shadowspite]

@Never_Flaccid

Tankers stay in the gray because otherwise they will instantly get destroyed by explosive packs especially when they’re 50 m from the cap.

In the higher tiers, this can be a problem - to an extent, since a lot more players carry explosives. I don’t disagree. Of course, this is a problem of game design - limit explosives or make them less effective. Leave tank destruction to AT cannon, AT weaponry, tanks, tank destroyers, etc. By making the tanks so easily destroyed by explosive packs, it makes them a target.

But, this can be countered: By good team play, for one thing. If you’re in a tank supporting infantry - they need to support you as well. Additionally, with the higher level tanks, come a bit more mobility. (Not perfect examples in every case, mind). But tanks should not be designed by the Devs nor played by the players - as indestructible. Other players need to get the chance to get in a tank, and gray zone tanking doesn’t really allow for this, unless there’s a lot of suicidal planes or long range AT on the other side.

In the end, I know this is a situation now, and in my initial rant, I was just pointing out what a weak style of gameplay it is - particularly by those who purposely exploit the situation in beta and not those who don’t even realize that they are in the gray zone. (I’m sure I’ve done it myself on occasion w/out realizing it, b/c these maps are pretty crazy sometimes.)

In the end, if more tankers played an infantry support/capture strategic points role and not a “sit in the back and get easy kills” role, it would be better for everyone for multiple reasons.

If a real miracle happened and DF actually fixed this somehow, all the better.

[iLoveDemocracyy]

Best way to go about this issue is to give better xp rewards for risking your tank. I get why people grey zone camp or even do it even unintentionally, because more often or not you will be heavily punished for pushing up. Fast way to upgrade your tank squads is to stay alive longer and gain xp. Everyone wants to make the most out of their vechile spawns. You could call it a skill issue if you throw away your tank in 2 minutes, but there needs insentive for pushing up. Lone tank (outside of grey zone) without infantry support is good as dead and like that realistic part of Enlisted. What if infantry + tank coordination would give both of them extra score. Why not focuse more on combined arms tactics instead of solo gaming in grey zone.

[khtk395]

@Shadowspite

Because winning the game should be the objective of every player. If everyone on a team had that goal, there’d be a lot less frustration from this team game.

Gray zone sniping is the “case in point” (e.g. prime example) of being a solo player in a team game.

How does grey zone camping not helping the team? You are still killing the enemy.

@Shadowspite

when everyone else realizes they’re weak ass players.

The weak ass player that you can’t kill lol.

@Shadowspite

I’ve only been playing the game 3 months. I can’t even wield a full team of BR3, much less 4 or 5.

Lol, you have many more to learn. Don’t come here to spread your “genius” idea when you don’t even have much experience in the game.

@Shadowspite

This is a common meme on this forum and in the game. Sniping, whether with a sniper rifle or a tank is the same, except the person doing it in the tank is more commonly in the gray zone and worse, in a FRICKIN TANK and can’t be killed. Definition of snipe: " 1. To shoot at individuals from a concealed place."

Sniping is weak because sniper rifle itself is weak. Tank cannon are not weak.

@Shadowspite

But “weak ass” is not saying the attack itself is weak or “ineffectual”. It’s merely say that the attack itself is weak tactic b/c it’s someone who’s abusing a situation that exists b/c this game is still in Beta. And that abuse ONLY benefits the single player, by and large it does nothing for the team to win.

If it is effective against enemy, it will contribute to winning no matter how.

@Shadowspite

How many of us have been on teams where we see the score leader on the LOSING side has the most kills? Whether in a plane the whole match or in a tank in the back?

THAT is a problem. If they were so good at the game, why didn’t they put their effort into winning instead of just making a high score?

Killing a lot enemy contributes to winning.

[Shadowspite]

@iLoveDemocracyy

Why not focuse more on combined arms tactics instead of solo gaming in grey zone.

Now you’re getting it.

They could limit how many explosives carried easily enough, and perhaps Darkflow could give bonus points if infantry kills other infantry in/around a tank. That could extend the life of a tank w/out massive nerfs. As it is, they’ve reduced the points for healing a tank dramatically which kind of sucks.