Why are lower tier germans so scared to play against even odds?

Mess Room
61

from replay site. this is json file about every battle you were in.
https://www.enlisted.net/en/replays/load/page/0/?Filter[type]=general&Filter[nick]=Shadowspite&action=search

players with userid=0 are bots and players with userid>0 are human players. quick check if match is full is to look at 19th place and see if userid is 0 or not. sometimes you have more than 20 human players per match, but that is cause someone deserted at start, but was replaced by another human player.

well you cant get around of that. any other solution would just kill game (or make it unappealing for loads of players). there are not enough players for faction vs faction MM, BR MM and skill based MM running concurrently. at best you can make it even playing field by reducing gap with player equipment, which game somewhat did compared to previous iteration.

you can find info about data here

and you probably think about this thread. i wouldnt call this painstakingly cause it was rather easy query after i collected data.

would not really help with anything. problem is not in equipment cause BR1 equipment can easily deal with BR3 equipment (except tanks vs tanks). problem is that most newbies just dont have the will to learn anything about the game, so they suck hard. skilled veteran with BR1 equipment would still dominate shit player with BR5 equipment.

cause people want to relax in BA vs BA action. some people just dont want to deal with full auto spam and HE spam on BR5. or they just want to play moscow or tunisia which arent represented in high BR matches.

i was stabbing people a lot in my first month of game. only skill it requires is remembering where the melee button is bound on your controls.

most important knowledge veterans have is how to build rally point and charge cap. believe me that this knowledge is rare even in high BR battles. most veterans that play low BR battles dont even have advantage in weapons cause they play BR2 and most newbies can either be competitive against them or can get to BR2 relatively fast.

62

I don’t care about the bots. It was a throw away comment.

If this were true, then the game is perfect, and nothing they can do would ever make it better?

Honestly, if I believed that were true, I’d quit right now, and never look back.

63

well you can forget about SBMM. majority of players doesnt want it (at least on forum). this is casual game and people dont want to sweat like it is competitive cs2/valorant/cod, not to mention there are not enough players for even faction vs faction and BR MM that are split across 6 servers and 4 nations with 3 BR queues (currently we have 2). only other way to fix MM would be to either remove faction vs faction MM so it is any vs any (e.g. germans, americans, soviets and japan vs germans, americans, soviets and japan) or to force joining random faction which players also dont want.

best you can get is somewhat even playing field regarding equipment (we are hoping for ±1 BR queue, but unsuccessfully).

there is problem regarding MM like victory stacking (mostly on BR5) when new equipment comes out and there were some ideas proposed on how to fix it.
there is also problem with map/mode selection cause you are often put on map/modes that you dont want to play.
there are also few other problems in the game

devs are slow and dont communicate about future updates, so we dont know if when at what will be fixed.

what you need to know that 7 months ago game improved in regards to MM cause before you had 6 campaigns where in particular campaigns one faction dominated totally with having up to 2:1 human players vs opponents. they reduced number of bots entering game massively, so they are now only present at the start of the match in off peak hours or on crossplay on. also they improved MM cause before you could easily kill newbies with BR5 equipment while they were equipped with BR1 weapons.

64

Your thinking is sadly totally upside down, my friend.
A lot of experienced people in here already told you exactly how it is.

I will only add my perspective.

I have countless of hours in this game and 7k+ battles.
I play all faction and have exactly everything unlocked (+ I own a majority of the premium squads and have all event stuff since 2021 etc.).

I couldn’t care less about silver. Because I don’t need it.

I play what I’m in the mood, to play. And it’s different every day I play. I play low-tier and high-tier, all factions included. Randomly. Mostly solo, but from time to time with friends that happen to sit in the same boat (played since 21, own most premiums, have everything unlocked yada yada)

So why do you, as a new player, encounter me in this game?
Mainly cuz I love the low pace bolt-action/early tanks gaming and the historical theatres like Tunisia and Moscow. And if I want that experience, I will naturally face you and other new players (among veterans). Today it’s an fantastic blend, I would say.

I do play low tier, cuz I get tired to only play high tier, automatic spam/HE fiesta non-stop. Don’t get me wrong, I love playing with the best equipment and the adrenaline rush it gives me. But it’s tiresome in the end.

Why can’t I play and enjoy this game using low BR stuff, only because I’m a veteran?

Like robihr said. For veterans there’s almost no difference playing high or low BR. I find it both equally easy.
There’s a lot of bad players in the higher tiers (and you’ll notice that in time). With the powerful weapons you’re using “up there” it’s almost even easier for a good player/veteran to stomp/dominate.

Personally I find it sometimes harder to play solo in low BR since you need to totally carry among newbies who don’t know anything about the game.

3 Likes
65

So true

2 Likes
66

I’m 60, retired and have been playing for around 2 years. I have maxed out squads at all levels in both US and German. I like the varied levels and varied weapons, so I have squads that are all level 2, all level 3 and all level 5. I would greatly prefer they left level 1-2 all level 1 or level 2 weapons. I did achieved Marshall before the last reset, not because I am good, just because I am retired and have little else to do. Lord forbid I get a job again.:rofl: But I have found it does not matter which level your playing in, there are always people better then you, however they should not have weapons 2 or 3 levels above you. If the makers would divide the game into the three tier system, you would rarely be outgunned like you are in the level 1-2 bracket. Either the makers don’t read this forum, or they don’t care as they seem to be solely focused on making cool stuff to get us to spend money. Just my opinion for what it’s worth, but as I keep saying, bots don’t spend money, and the makers need to take that into consideration. BTW, even though I am in the Philippines I do play US servers. However, I am 12 hours a head of east coast time in the US so I probably don’t play the same people you do. But I doubt that matters much.

1 Like
67

You’re representing the people who have already spent money. The majority of current veterans, perhaps.

I represent the people who MIGHT come into this game, or DO come into this game and immediately quit.

I’m not saying the Devs should only chase newbs and new players, but w/out a source of new players, the game will die.

If they don’t make changes, I personally won’t care, as I won’t be here spending $200/month, I’ll spend my money elsewhere. Lots of game, too little time, and too little time wasting on a game that caters to people who’ve played since launch and don’t care about attracting new players.

Having said that, the changes they made in December sound like they were doing it to extend the life of their game. I do hope they start thinking about how to get more balanced matches.

But, I’ve already starting quitting matches far more than I used to, particularly against Germans in the lower tier. Eventually, if it continues, this game will have just one more person who liked the game a lot but quit b/c it’s wildly imbalanced for newer players.

68

game is not imbalanced for new players… it is imbalanced for all players. one game you may get 9 shit players vs full stack of veteran players and sometimes you get team of veteran players vs newbies/shit players. i am not that skilled, but most of my games i finish in first place cause i understand that to win you just need to build rally points and rush into cap (and sometimes destroy enemy rally points, tanks and planes). lots of players dont even try to understand this so they basically suck.

most of the times newbies need to casually grind for a week or two to unlock most of the BR2 equipment (veterans on low tier usually use mix of BR1 and BR2 equipment) and unlock full potential of squads. if they have played any FPS before they can actively compete with most veterans on rather even ground.

when i started playing this game i was constantly in top3 despite having much worse equipment than veterans just cause i bothered to learn some mechanics of the game (building rally point, how to dive bomb etc.).

btw if you encounter roflstomp it is ok to desert. you dont have to force yourself to play game you dont enjoy.

1 Like
69

“Game’s dying” Pretty bold statement for being a new player.

You know; people have been saying this for years and yet here we are.

It sounds like you’re that kind or guy who needs to win/be the best from the very start. Having a hard time losing/accepting others are better than you.

We all have been there, being new and clueless. Personally I found it inspiring to face more experienced and better players. I learned a lot from all the defeats in my early days. And that’s how you evolve. Like with everything in life.

At least new players fight veterans with equal equipment, compared to 6 months ago.

1 Like
70

I didn’t say the “game is dying” - I said if they don’t get new players, the game will die. Hardly a bold statement, since anyone can draw the conclusion, even if they’ve never played the game before - since it’s true of EVERY game. There are few live service games out there that can survive long-term w/out new players spending money.

And correct me if I’m wrong - DF made a rather large and distinct change to the game 7 months ago. They’ve introduced bots and continue to improve the AI. Those are not the actions of a game on the upswing. Again, I think their AI and bots are pretty good, and I’d far rather play with a few or even a lot of bots, than sit there staring at a queuing screen.

But none of the above are “bold statements”.

LOL. Did you even read the title of this thread? If I wanted to win all the time, regardless of my skill, I’d just go play low tier German! /smh

So have I. And I have stuck with the US team, exactly because I like a challenge. Even though it’s imbalanced b/c for whatever reason on the US server, the German team continues to bottom feed. It’s funny how the Russian, US, and Japanese don’t have the need to do bottom feed. Just the Germans, and apparently (based on comments from others on this thread) only on the US server.

In other games, there are carrot and stick actions taken by the designers so that, over time, the skilled players move on to other areas.

In an MMO, for instance, the areas would stop giving XP as the players gain levels, incentivizing new areas with XP and higher gear, and then, freeing up those mobs for newbies to kill and the cycle continues. I’ve seen PVP games where they give larger rewards for players killed that are higher or same level, and less and less rewards as the levels become further apart. So, the risk for the higher level person is a death by a lower one (losing stuff) whereas the lower one has almost no risk, and little to be gained by the veteran if they kill the newbie. Thus, the carrot and the stick for the veteran to not prey upon the newbie.

This game incentivizes veterans to prey on newbies and gives no stick penalizing them, nor any carrot to get them to move on.

While it’s better than it was six months ago due to the changes in the game - it still isn’t particularly fair to new players. (Note: I don’t consider myself one at this point, outside of learning a few maps I haven’t seen, etc.)

Veterans have more silver and experienced soldiers, earned points spent on research, silver for gun upgrades, mine upgrades, backpacks, leveled soldiers, flasks, upgraded weapons/tanks, etc etc.

Don’t even pretend to say it’s just about the veteran’s skill and experience. I get the feeling some veterans have no idea how newbies of this new game since December actually start out - or it’s just been so long, you’ve forgotten.

My point in all this is improving the game experience for all players. I’d like to know that with a constant influx of players, the game will be around when I too can look back on a couple of years of play.

71

let me correct you then. bots were present before change 7 months ago. change 7 months ago more than halved number of bots in games and now they are only present in off peak hours, on crossplay off and when player desert mid game.

for target practice maybe?

this is present in all factions depending on update and BR. e.g. when merge just hit BR5 germans were dominating for a month (over 95% WR as solo), then swing happened and US dominated for 2-3 months, then japan BR5 update happened and japan dominated.

victory farming happens often, just it is question of which faction/BR is currently in trend. btw low BR usually is not victory farmed and players there are mostly equally bad on both sides, so presence of one or two veterans is felt.

well most FPS dont have such mechanisms. you have either competitive shooters (cs2, valorant, cod) or free for all/casual shooters (pubg, casual/pub cs2, WoT, WT, WoWS). this is casual shooter. btw even those who have SBMM have much simpler MM (no nation vs nation and no BR MM).

while i acknowledge that victory farming is a problem that needs to be solved, i dont see a problem with skilled players alongside newbies in casual game.

you can easily get fully upgraded squads with couple of weeks playing, specially if you have premium account. low BR weapons are generally cheap to buy and upgrade, while squad grind is also fast.
btw i have been playing for 2 years and i still have squads that i am leveling up in all nations. wait till you see that for first level of class III or IV squad you need 15k or 20k xp and to fully grind it you need hundreds of thousands of xp.

so tell me what is great experience for new players? getting them into protected MM with bots only? what if they get skilled player who has played other fps and is dominating them there with pure skill? newbies need to learn to play and that is best accomplished in battles with veterans.

72

Enlisted is not a pure FPS game. Anyone who picks up a sniper rifle and camp in a gray area can have a great gaming experience, because some AI soldiers let you shoot.Novice players are definitely not fools. They will stay in the gray area when their attack is blocked, and in such cases, the worst gaming experience is on the other side.Additionally, you can also choose to exit for the next round.

So obviously, don’t demand any foolish exit penalties or different levels of rewards, as this will only make the game as bad as War Thunder.