Although I don’t see it as something usual, either to be obtained through an event or used in some game modes events, it would be interesting for different factions to see improvised weapons or converted weapons, such as this American M1 carbine converted by the Japanese into some type of automatic weapon
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Even though every country captured whatever things it could, between factions in game I’d never want straight up copy and pastes. I think “captured content” should only be if the faction did something to it to make it unique and truly their own
The MP 717 counts because they were PPSH converted to German pistol rounds. Yes I know they say that’s such a minuscule change but it’s a change nonetheless and makes it unique in my book
This carbine would be a cool addition
yea it would help if it not GO since jap lack auto weapon for infantry compare to other faction
the mp 717 has the tokarev cartridge. The event mp41r is converted to 9mm but the mp 717 fires slower than the usual ppsh 41
The MP 717 was converted to German 7.63x25mm which was the C96 round. 9mm is for a different variety of SMGs and pistols
my bad
but what I was referring to in my suggestion were captured and refurbished weapons with a homemade look…
The Tokarev round was an exact copy of the Mauser 7.63x25mm; it was only after 1952 when the Soviet high command added more powder charge to the cartridge. The Tokarev round changed to 7.62 from 7.63 because every other Soviet cartridge was 7.62. There is no reason why the MP717 (r) and PPSH should have different RPMs.
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It’s bad enough constantly fighting Lend Lease in War Thunder. I’d hate to constantly fight against captured guns that are just ours but in the enemy hands. Adapted and changed/domestic copies of captured arms is another story though. Those would be cool, plus there are several examples of domestic copies in the game already. Notably in the SMG department and with the Kraut anti tank rocket launcher, or as I call it, Imitation M1
Adding more stuff like that would be cool
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I’ve never heard of there being 2 types of the round … where did you get that from?
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Owen gun: say what?
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Soviet documents
They didn’t make two versions. They copied the Mauser 7.63 which was very popular at that time. There is only a difference in name, they are the same except for the shorter neck and larger headspace. It was only added more powder to the cartridge after 1952.
This comes from the Soviet design committee.
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By 2 types I mean the “original” copy of the Mauser, and then you say it was made more powerful from 1952 - I’ve never encountered the assertion that it was more powerful from 1952.
All the documents I’ve ever seen say (more or less) that it was more powerful from the get go - ie that teh increase in power was incorporated from the beginning. I’ve never seen any reference to a 1952 committee in reference to it.
So curious where the references to that are on the web??
If I recall you dont need to convert ppsh at all for either round.
Both comes with loud bang out of barrel.
Only thing ive read about post-war 7.62 tokarev was it was deemed as over penetrating round so adding more boom sounds quite illogical.
As well as the time sounds bit off considering by that time AK was already being accepted as primary weapon for regular troops.
What comes to 2 different rounds only thing I could think of would be the “hotload” smg round and “pistol” round.
But ive got no idea did soviets have 2 separate loads like some other countries did for 9mm for example.
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No, I am saying the Tokarev round was given more powder charge after 1952, not the Mauser round.
while trying to find information that both were the same bullets i found this information:
from first forum:
The main difference is that 7.62 Tokarev uses the “Russian” bullet diameter for their 7.62 mm, which is 7.9 mm with a corresponding larger groove diameter (dimensions taken over from their 7.62 mm rifle bores).
7.63 Mauser uses the standard 7.62 mm bullet diameter of a little over 7.8 mm.
Pressure according to CIP is 2500 bar (Tokarev) versus 2250 bar (Mauser). 10 percent is a very small difference for handgun cartridges. In any case, firing 7.63 Mauser from a 7.62 Tokarev weapon is on the safe side.
also from other forum
In 1929, the Soviet Artillery Committee made a proposal to develop a domestic pistol chambered for the Mauser cartridge. After considerable research and development, it was decided that the “Model 1930 7.62 mm pistol cartridge,” essentially the Mauser round with minor modifications, was to become the standard caliber for Soviet pistols and submachine guns. Early versions of the Vasily Degtyaryov-designed PPD-40 submachine gun were marked for Mauser cartridge caliber 7.62 mm. Although dimensionally similar to the Mauser cartridge, so much so that both cartridges will chamber, load and fire in any of these weapons, the Soviets increased the power of the Tokarev cartridge powder charge significantly. As such, while the lower-power Mauser rounds can be safely used in any of these weapons, the Tokarev cartridge is not safe for use in weapons which were not designed for the added pressure. The Russians produced a wide array of loadings for this cartridge for use in submachine guns. These include armor-piercing, tracer, and incendiary rounds.
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Yet they had the same ballistic performance as the 7.63 until they increased the powder after WW2.
can you get me the source of those claims? cause i dont see similar performance from data on wiki
this is tokarev
and mauser
from “The encyclopedia of weapons of ww2”, Chris Bishop for ppsh 41
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These are all after 1952. A typical Tokarev-chambered pistol launches 85-grain bullets at around 1400fps at the muzzle. Some surplus and modern factory loads approach 1500fps. This is in History books.
But also this, see how even the Encyclopedia has the PPSH 41 at 900 rpm. Darkflow currently has the rpm for it at 1000 rpm.
7.62x25 Ammo at Ammo.com: Cheap 7.62x25 Tokarev Ammo
The cartridges are dimensionally similar, to the degree that they were interchangeable. Then the Russian government significantly raised the power of the Tokarev cartridge powder charge. While the lower-powered Mauser cartridge can be chambered in any of these weapons, the Tokarev 7.62mm load should only be used in firearms designed for the added pressure.