Gotta compare eggs to eggs mate. You are praising something for how it is after 7-13 years later and comparing it to something that has only 2 years. I’m not attacking you, or making it personal. Just being objective.
I don’t need to know what it’s like now, to compare 2 years to 2 years. It’s irrelevant for the time being.
Ive also been around long enough to hear all this before, in warthunder…and that is thriving after 10 years.
Games do not come from complete vacuum and monetazation schemes are not made from scratch every time, I am simply comparing 2023 f2p game with another 2023 f2p game, the friend of mine has several twink accounts in League, and on both he has a dozen of skins, champions AND decent rank, Diamond 4 on three accounts (third being main one), in Enlisted you simply cant achieve such results just by playing well, 6k experience for 3500 points with 1st place tell me that.
All that with no requirement to grind, there is one free chest per week, no reason to play more than the amount of games needed for you to get an S.
That’s such a lazyass excuse for poor game design
if you say so.
I do say so
And
Ever heard of Fortnite? Apex? Valorant? League of Legends? Any of this ringing a bell?
heard of them? no…I just spent the last dozen posts talking about one of them. 
why are you here and not there. I tell you why Im not, because I am no longer interested in any of those titles or they never did it for me in the first place.
I think you’ve missed my point …Yes you’re right on the regards of 3A developers putting half finished game out and are on the quick money making scheme
However my point is that whole game’s balance shouldnt disrupt someone’s experience overall. For instance, the whole experience shouldn’t be time consuming and too grindy in order to unlock things like Thompson SMG or BAR which were common firearms of ww2
The game’s progression for new people is very slow and demotivating when they usually get shredded by late campaign people or a team of friends with premium squads
The problem is that players lack objectivity in such matter, and they dont see nothing wrong that you first have to buy premium in order to have less frustrating time
The mindset “if you dont like it move on” is what could drive away newcoming players and grow the game. I personally couldn’t care less now, i have couple of levels more to unlock on each campaign except tunisia and berlin - i have premium and two premium squads
Rather im trying to be more objective, and think from a new player standpoint. This new progression thing they came up with …i hope it works well for the new players.
Some people dont have too much time on their hands, and we live in times of difficult worldwide recession, not everyone can spare 25 bucks even if to some of us that seems a little
The point is this game shouldn’t have frustrating progression and should have players who are more objective to getting newer players and making them stay otherwise it could be bad for everyone in the long run
Now “that’s” objectively put. Can’t say you aren’t being reasonable.
I just think that the arguments about being frustrating because of end game gear are moot at this point, as it’s already been announced it is changing. We have to wait and see. It is huge news as this could be the crossroads to something greater…or a dead end. Its exciting.
And as for grind and premium, I’ve been gaming for a long time, free to play wasn’t a thing when I started, and entry was expensive and if you couldnt afford it you went without with no complaints. People have it so good these days and take it for granted. So I guess it just grinds my gears a little when people think they are entitled to something for nothing. Its a privilege.
For a small price for your recreation you can fast track your progression…and you keep it once unlocked. Big difference from how it used to be…no pay no play.
I’d say two things you’re getting wrong. Say, Runescape was a thing as far back as 2001, so, f2p was around for longer than you’re implying. And more relevant, second. Speaking strictly for premium, you’re not paying for a fast track, you’re paying for making a horrible grind slightly less horrible. Now, if you’re willing to spend cash on straight up buying progression, that’s a real fast track. But going heavy in that route will probably cost you around the price of a half decent car.
LoL doesn’t lock a large portion of the game behind a giant grind.
If you want a champion, you can grind for just that champion, nothing else.
Enlisted, if you simply want a Tiger or StG44, you have to slog through a bunch of crap you don’t want.
Again, another lazy cop out
Yes, that is the point, the grind can be somewhat enjoyable, when you can actually can see the result of your perfomance every game, like for example ranked grind in most games, you know if you play better, then you have higher winrate, and so you are closer to your desired rank with every right action you`ve done during the match. I am a new player in Enlisted, played only for a month, and day after day I have less and less desire to play the game, because the leveling simply feels hopeless of all words to describe it. It might be a me thing, but we ve all agreed already, that the grind is painful even with premium, all hopes for future updates I guess, but the purpose of the post and such activity under it should be a sign for devs that this trick wont work twice, if anyone of them actually reads the posts that said. The players, as a community, should decide what game they want to play, and to make it better for everyone, fellow gamers, voting with their wallets when they are actually satisfied with the path devs have chosen for their game, but not because they have to pay exorbidant sums to enjoy a f2p project. There is one Soulworker game already in this world, it doesnt need more.
Oh I didnt get it wrong, i didnt imply when i started gaming, only that i had played lol in 2009. RUNESCAPE, which interesringly enough, is massively grindy…
Mmos have always been…massively grindy
If you “simply” want a stg or a tiger, do any one of the free events or twitch drops for a gold order. And grab one …
What type of game do think you are playing…league of legends doesnt have “end game” champions, they are all designed to be as relevant as the next (at least thats the idea). Its a MOBA, and as stated if you want to unlock everything for free…its going to be a grind.
Mmos dont give level 1’s, level 80 legendary gear and lucky for you, mmos have mostly gone away from monthly subscriptions.
Like it or not. Enlisted is MMO genre/model in some form. And what is most likely to happen, is it will follow Warthunders example.
Wake up
What’s wrong with monthly subscriptions? I’d much rather buy a game for 40e, give or take, and pay 8e per month, again, give or take than have microtransactions of any sort. First model is rather transparent while the second far less so.
Try Crossout for example and then tell me you would prefer paying your single or monthly fee and enjoying your full game or being curbstomped despite paying thru your nose just because someone else payed just a bit more.
If you’re making a WoW reference - it’s a very bad one. That game had hundreds of millions of players despite having a rather hefty sub fee at the time. And it shot itself in the foot precisely when it added yearly “expansions” some of which literally gave you almost a max level character to start with or provided you with means to get gear that almost outclassed pre that expansion raid bis gear with little to minimal effort.
I was taking a stab about crying premium time is unreasonbale (god forbid you had to subscribe to play at all), so you’d happily pay a subscription to not get stomped, but premium time is going too far. In principle they are pretty much the same thing. Im starting to wonder what you are even arguing about. Just like these other boys that think grind doesn’t exist or has never existed in their perfect game.
Because WoW is the only MMO…(funnily enough, I played WoW for 2 days. Wasn’t my cup of tea. so no, I’m not talking about WoW). Try “insert MMO here”. Star Wars Galaxies, LOTR online, Age of Conan, SWTOR, RIFT…the list is long and distinguished. And presented by your own hand, you say that WoW shot itself in the foot by offering end game characters and gear for no effort…Are you arguing my point? sure sounds like it. The Only MMO that I had significant time in that gave a portion of end game up front was guild wars 2, and that was only pvp arena.
Your are starting to post based on false assumptions. Getting away from the point in the hope of picking something I said apart for a win? That’s not going to change anything.
Win, what exactly? I figured we’re having a chat, not a pissing match. You can retire the big book of /r logical fallacies. 
But what does rub me the wrong way is that you’re equating sub fees with premium time. You payed your monthly fee and you got everything. At equal pace to everyone else. With premiums and such current f2p standard you can pay your premium “monthly fee”, buy premium currency, buy premium packs, buy boosters, buy exclusive, and generally very good if not straight up p2w in some games, premium exclusive content and still have a grindy time because it’s never enough. How in the hell should one be glad they’re experiencing latter than the former?
And stop pulling your weight like you’re a methuselah. Not everyone you meet online is 15. Still got my hard copy of both Age of Conan, DAOC, the original GW and quite a couple of others catching dust in some box somewhere.
All good I misunderstood, text is hard to pick where people are going with it. And this is the forums after all, expect it to degenerate into an irrelevant pissing contest when challenged. I was starting to think you were ignoring my main points in favor of trying to pick at the seams of smaller ones. That’s usually where it starts.
I apologise. Will continue response shortly 
I’m not quite following you. So I will lay out what I understand to try and find your meaning.
A subscription based MMO didn’t remove the need to grind, It was all or nothing. You either got to play, or you didn’t at all. You paid, then you got to grind. The equal ground was, you got to pay the same as everyone else, for the same access. But depending on how much time you had available, the ground was far from equal. (then comes paying for power leveling, raid gear grinding, PVP rank/gear grinding and currency farming from third party). Lets not even go into endgame gear based raid/PVP exclusion/favoritism, RNG or open world PVP where max levels Gank and farm newbies.
Then comes the free to play/subscription, The compromise, you can play for free without the subscription, in which case certain features are not available to you, character slots are limited, and in some cases your xp rate or gain per day is limited. (and a whole range of other limitations). All little frustrations designed to point you towards paying.
Then there’s free to play, but pay to win. You can play for free but you will get stomped so badly by people that paid for items, gear overwhelmingly stronger than anything you could get otherwise, you either don’t play, or if you cant beat them, join them.
and many other variants of which Warthunder and Enlisted exist but look very similar and borrow aspects from the above. As far as I am concerned they are all heads of the same beast. How can they get money for the product they provide.
So really your quarrel isn’t with paying or grind. Its how you pay entry at the gate??? If that’s the case…the only disagreements are over minor details.
Ill ignore this comment for the most part, as its a bit misdirected. Out of the people taking part in this conversation, I haven’t made any assumptions about how old anyone is, or what they have or haven’t played. I haven’t had to. That information has been offered without me directly asking for it, implying it, or assuming it. Just like you offered that up some of your games just now. I don’t make the mistake of assuming that is your entire list, or that DAOC is your earliest game. That is all you have cared to name, Just as I have only named a few.
And as a fellow Age of Conan (just one example) player, you will appreciate that grind these days is mostly nothing compared to how it sometimes used to be and absent RNG (thank god…there are exceptions though), nor is it new. 24 man raid has to be somewhat competent, 1 clear per instance a week, only a few pieces of random legendary gear dropped. Regulars have first dibbs, then roll of the dice. (or if you were a fill in you had no priority, you only got scraps people didn’t want). And in the beginning gear barely mattered its was cosmetic bragging rights, you could fight naked and still compete every bit as well. They soon converted that to gear matters, there fore grind. Something some hugely popular games still thrive on till this day.
Maybe you know this or don’t but here’s some ways I learned to get xp fast without putting money into the game:
I literally do all the things you`ve mentioned above every game, and it is sad that you get literally nothing from all that, 1/20th of campaing level at max per game, there is just no reason to play well and get better at the game, and the devs are not interested in that either. If the only way to even get exp is to get 1st place every game, which I mostly do, and even when I am not I am top 3 as you ve said, and even then you get literally nothing in terms of progress, I had 3k points one game, got 1st place in the team, and got 4k experience, there is a screenshot of it from me higher above, there are no TONS of exp, not even kilos, so why bother? I mean, “buy premium to enjoy the game”, yes, but that doesnt make the progression less broken in its very core, and premium wont make the game less repetative either. I sure like the gameplay and atmosphere, have nothing against shooting bots for fun, but as I ve said, the grind can be enjoyable, sweating every game for nothing feels like a waste, and it is totally justified to feel so.
I haven’t bought premium and I still have a good time. What campaign are you playing? I’ve played Warface before, which is notorious for being pay to win with OP weapons locked behind paywalls, and I can still beat the people with the free weapons I unlocked.