I’ve been reading a lot of p̶e̶o̶p̶l̶e̶ ̶whini̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶b̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶C̶A̶S̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶F̶G̶ ̶4̶2 forum topics regarding balance of the Normandy campaign, and I have come to a conclusion that there are three main problems:
Close air support, mainly the P-47 Thunderbolt.
Panther and to some degree Sherman Jumbo.
Imbalance of top tier infantry weapons, mainly FG 42, M2 Carbine and to some degree MP 43/I.
So here are some solutions that came to my mind, put together in one thread:
1.Close air support:
The P-47 is a fighter-attacker, and a great one at that. Meanwhile the German counterpart - the Fw 190 A-8 is a fighter.
So my idea is to replace the A-8 variant with the F-8 variant (which is in War Thunder, so they have a ready model) and have it armed with one of the loadouts from War Thunder.
Since the P-47 is equipped with the (equivalent) 250kg bomb and eight rockets, maybe the Fw 190 F-8 could be equipped with one of these loadouts:
1 x 250 kg bomb + 4 x 50 kg bombs,
1 x 500 kg bomb,
1 x 500 kg bomb + 4 x 50 kg bombs.
2.Panther and Jumbo:
A lot of people are angry about how Panther is impossible to penetrate frontally by any american tank. The Jumbo, unless Germans have a Panther, has the same problem - nothing can get through it frontally (well, both have some very small weak spots, but both are mostly untouchable). So here’s my idea:
Put the M4A2 (76) W (or the M10 GMC if Darkflow is too lazy to change the skin) at level 20 - in place of the M4A3E2 Jumbo.
Put either the M18 GMC (for better mobility), M36 GMC (for better gun) at level 31.
All of the models besides the M36 GMC are in the game - the M4A2 (76) W is a Berlin premium for the USSR and the M18 GMC is in the files (or at least was at some point: NEW TANKS COMING TO ENLISTED? - YouTube)
3. Weapons imbalance:
A lot of people say (and rightfully so) that the FG 42 is OP because it has almost no recoil (which unfortunately for game balance is realistic: Shooting the FG42: The Hype is Real - YouTube) while the supposed US counterpart - the M2 Carbine is a glorified SMG with unusable sights.
And while I with all of this, I haven’t seen a solution that is good both from a gameplay and historical perspective.
Most of the people want the FG 42 to be locked to the gunner class. The problem is that the FG 42 is not an LMG. It is both an LMG and a standard service rifle, however it was limited only to paratroopers.
My solution for this is pretty much a redesign of half of the campaign, but I think it would be both balanced and somewhat historically accurate. So here’s what I’d do:
1. First of all, to eliminate both of the FG 42s from the infantry squads I would make the sniper rifle progression for Germans the same as for Americans:
bolt action rifle - Sniper Kar98k,
bolt action rifle - Pre-war sniper Kar98k,
semi auto rifle - Sniper G 43.
2. And here is where it gets a bit complicated:
Now the progression from the level 23 up looks like this (level - type of unlock - US weapon/vehicle - German weapon/vehicle):
23 - Engineer II - M2 Carbine - FG 42
24 - Vehicle - P-38J-15 - Bf 109 G-10
25 - Machine Gunner II - Browning M1918A2 - MG 42
26 - Weapon - Lanchester - ZK-383
27 - Fighter Pilot II - P-47D-28 - Fw 190 A-8
28 - Flametrooper II - M2 Flamethrower - Flammenwerfer 41
29 - Weapon - Thompson M1A1 - 40 rd Beretta M38
30 - Weapon - M1 Bazooka - Panzerfaust 60
31 - Tanker III - M10 GMC - Panther A
32 - Assaulter III - Thompson M1 - MP 43/1
I would change it up to look like this (changes highlighted with bold letters):
23 - Vehicle - P-38J-15 - Bf 109 G-10
24 - Machine gunner II - Browning M1918A2 - MG 42
25 - Fighter Pilot II - P-47D-28 - Fw 190 A-8
26 - Weapon - Lanchester - ZK-383
27 - Flametrooper II - M2 Flamethrower - Flammenwerfer 41
28 - Weapon - M1 Bazooka - Panzerfaust 60
29 - Weapon - Thompson M1A1 - 40 rd Beretta M38
30 - Tanker III - M10 GMC - Panther A
31 - Assaulter III - Thompson M1 - MP 43/1
32 - Paratrooper - Johnson M1941 LMG - FG 42
And some new levels necessary to make some place (so perhaps a new update):
3. So here’s how I’d see a Paratrooper squad in the game:
It would have the same size as a Bomber squad, so 4 to 6 people.
It would have similar upgrades:
Assaulter/Engineer/Radioman,
Bomber/Engineer/Radioman,
Machine Gunner/Sniper.
The squad would start with a paratrooper equipped with the FG42 in case of Germans and Johnson M1941 LMG for US, and two troopers with standard bolt action rifles. The paratrooper would be a counterpart of troopers in regular squads, but able to use the weapon unlocked with the squad.
Paratroopers would obviously not appear in any other squads as an upgrade.
Assaulters would use SMGs without the MP43 for Germans, it’s not an SMG and it was rejected by the Luftwaffe.
Other, non weapon specific classes (engineer, radioman and bomber) would use all weapons available to them with the exception of the StG 44 (for the reason listed above) and the M2 Carbine (because I’m quite sure it wasn’t used by the US paratroopers).
Gunners would use machine guns with only M1919A6 for the US.
And now snipers. Everything normal for US snipers, but German snipers in paratrooper squad would be able to use the FG42/II rifle (maybe without a possibility to remove the scope for balance). So the FG42/II would be both squad and class locked.
So a fully upgraded paratrooper team would look like this (at least if I’d be using it):
Germany:
Paratrooper - FG 42,
Paratrooper - FG 42,
Paratrooper - FG 42,
Bomber - G 43,
Engineer - G 43,
Sniper - FG 42/II,
USA:
Paratrooper - M1941 LMG,
Paratrooper - M1941 LMG,
Paratrooper - M1941 LMG,
Bomber - M1 Garand,
Engineer - M1 Garand,
Gunner - M1919A6.
4. And now some things for clarification (mainly justification of my 33-35 level unlock suggestions):
I included the G 43 for German paratroopers because although they did’t use them when they were deployed from the air, when they were fighting as ground units later in the war I’m quite sure they used them at least once.
Level 33 - Here the unlocks are different - one is a machine gun and the other one is… well, let’s say a sniper rifle (that can however be used only in paratrooper squad). That is a situation similar to the level 5 Normandy unlock - FNAB-43 for Germans and M1 Carbine for the US, so it isn’t anything new. I did this to give both paratroopers a weapon they can equip in one of their gun special classes - sniper for Germans and gunner for the US. And also because the US really needs a proper machine gun.
Level 34 - I included StG 44 here to replace the FG 42 from the Engineer II squad and to give Germans a weapon similar in concept to the M2 Carbine. But I believe that for it to be balanced, the M2 (and all Carbines for that matter) needs a substantial buff. Their recoil values should be essentially halved to match the StG’s recoil. Only then they should be unlocked as counterparts.
Level 35 - I know that by 1944 the M1928A1 was probably phased off from service, but so was e.g. the Beretta M1918, so it is not a problem for Darkflow. And besides that, the US would need something stronger than the M1 Thompson to counter the MP 43/I, so maybe bigger magazine would be a nice advantage. As for the Doppeltrommel MG 34, I thought that Darkflow would probably want to make the same amount of MGs for each side, so that’s why it’s here. It would also be an easy job for them as it already exists in Berlin.
And I know that what I’m proposing is essentially a redesign of half of the campaign and will probably never happen, but if they ever would be willing to improve the Normandy campaign, I feel like this is a good way to go.
Balance has EVERYTHING to do with the player base. Last weekend, many on this forum said that they couldn’t win a single game playing Allies. A few days later, it flipped the other direction.
I was pretty easily able to max both factions and never felt the “imbalance” that I keep hearing about.
Leave the weapons as they are, momentum changes constantly and weapons have very little to do with it.
Oh man. Heroes and Generals really screwed a whole generation.
The Johnson was used by the Devils Brigade/ Special Forces in Europe (Italy and Southern France) and by Marines in Asia.
Well. You are not the first one who suggested removing the Jumbo (at least thats how I understand your idea) and you wont be the last poor soul but well…
DF refuses to remove the Jumbo. The Jumbo will stay as long as DF sees no reason to remove it and well…
DF thinks this game is fine and not broken.
I honestly dont see any issues with that. Asyemmtrical balance. Issue is that the FW is bugged since its release and the ignorance of DF.
Sorry but FUCK…
I once started this thread as a joke…
But its unbelievable how right I was with my assumption.
Again the M36 wasnt in Europe until September 1944. Its the same issue we have with the Jumbo and the spam of the FG.
Well. Asymmetrical balance. Issue is that there is already enough quanitity of SMGs and that carbines got mass nerfed for no reason.
Just either give the FG to gunners (which would be fair consider that the BAR is the same weapon class as the FG) or to assaulters or to the paratrooper-squads only. IMO less complicated than your idea.
What I also dont like is that you out “OP” guns at higher levels.
It wont change anything for people who already have OP guns but makes the game harder for newbies.
I doubt darkflow is going to implement any of this, but I appreciate the effort. One other thing I would suggest is moving the Easy 8 or the 76 Sherman up to 31, and shifting down the M10 to level 20, along with their German counterparts. If theis change happened, I would also say switch the Panther out for a Hetzer, Stug, Jagdpanzer or another casemate tank destroyer. Anyways, just my two cents.
Yeah, when there are 2 human players + bots vs 10 human players then it is decided no matter the equipment. It is really weird to play invasion and as an attacker be unable to even reach first objective and it is kind of boring as defender when you are waiting near the objective but nobody is coming and you need to hang at the edge of gray zone where every other defender already is to at least get some kills.
I think that currently there are mostly humans in Normandy on both sides.
But what I meant is that experienced humans beat less experienced team over the course of several games, even if the less experienced team has much better equipment.
Let’s just wait for the new levels (at least 8 more), in which a lot of new things will appear.
I’m amazed why people suggest removing things or greatly changing them, even though the picture is completely incomplete. Stop and wait, a major update awaits us in 2021
dude there was 30,000 ready for dday for us and British and the fg42 was 7000
again the m2 was at Normandy it fires like smg but it isn’t a smg but a riffle just like bar as lmg its a battle riffle not lmg but basically fall in the same line it was rejected for smg
But when you have experienced player with much better equipment it is pure slaughter as enemy and when you have many on your side you have to really compete for kills.
devils brigade is what made it famous by your logic you shouldn’t have the fg42 at all and its in the name it was made in 1941 so why cant it be in the Normandy campaign when Normandy was in 44 3 year later so are you scared of competition or that you wont top of the score board due stuff you cant contend with
but also they used them M1941 Johnson Light Machine Gun to the U.S. armed forces, and this weapon was later used by both [Paramarines] and the Army’s First Special Service Force
which is candian/ american so we cant have the weapon we made and designed there were 5 time more Johnson riffle(30,000) than fg42s(7000)
Do I really have to explain you the differences between the main armed forces and special forces?
At least the Germans have the technically right units for the Fallschirmjägergewehr (paratroopers). Where are the ranger units, (para)marines (which were deployed in Asia) and other special forces units?
its only game braking when the allies get anything to rival your godly fg42/panther spam but this is ok
not really cause out of the 7000 fg42 only super limited number made it Normandy not enough for you to spam the shit outta of them by your logic the jhonson had more there than the fg42 so we should get it the m2 carbine was also there in limited numbers
These are German paratroopesr in Normandy… with a FG.
Where the fancy pics/ stats with rangers holding/ using Johnson in Normandy?
The marines were not active in Europe… at least in a significant high rate plus the Johnson was more or less replaced by BARs and the Garand by the Marines, especially the LMG version.
Lets recalculate the process: You have no evidences for the Johnsons while I have evdiences for the FG in Normandy.
Blablablabla the FG shouldnt be a mass issued gun blablabla Solve it like this…
And that was in the same bloody thread…
You know what? The Wehraboos hate me and the 'Merica Mains hate me too.
If both of you biased idiots hate me, I can live with that.
“A photo from a 1943 copy of the USMC magazine “The Leatherneck” showing a USMC paramarine Corporal firing a 1941 LMG.”
“A photo from a 1943 copy of the USMC magazine “The Leatherneck” showing a USMC paramarine Corporal firing a 1941 LMG.”
“A photo from a 1943 copy of the USMC magazine “The Leatherneck” showing a USMC paramarine Corporal firing a 1941 LMG.”
“A photo from a 1943 copy of the USMC magazine “The Leatherneck” showing a USMC paramarine Corporal firing a 1941 LMG.”
“A photo from a 1943 copy of the USMC magazine “The Leatherneck” showing a USMC paramarine Corporal firing a 1941 LMG.”
“A photo from a 1943 copy of the USMC magazine “The Leatherneck” showing a USMC paramarine Corporal firing a 1941 LMG.”
“A photo from a 1943 copy of the USMC magazine “The Leatherneck” showing a USMC paramarine Corporal firing a 1941 LMG.”
…
Since when was the D-Day in 1943?
