(Sent Back For Revision) Almost ready: Silver economy improvements

[Artorias_Jiandie]

Sorry that we had any disagreements.

[Serpiko82]

@Wieloglow

• players demand more silver.
• developers propose +50 % change of silver income (current plan)
• idiots start threatening - “give more silver or we will post negative rewievs on Steam !!!”

Nice job completely ignoring that I’ve been complaining only about the removal of stored XP.

[Myrm1don]

@Serpiko82

the removal of stored XP.

I thought that was the bulk of the complaints.

[Adamnpee]

@Serpiko82

removal of stored XP.

That’s 100% needed /or should be usable only trough combination with premium currency

[Serpiko82]

@Adamnpee

That’s 100% needed /or should be usable only trough combination with premium currency

[robihr]

here we go again…

and yet you still provide no good argument on why it is needed or why it breaks economy.

[Adamnpee]

@robihr

and yet you still provide no good argument on why it is needed or why it breaks economy.

I did.

[robihr]

@Adamnpee

I did.

…

@robihr

it doesnt stop people from playing(cause no more grind), new weapons/vehicles arent expensive enough to warrant buying premium (if that was your argument for health of the game). so if player still plays that faction when new weapon comes out he will also unlock it in few days of grind, just with extra xp you remove that extra week he would need to spend grinding. nothing broken. btw like i said before you still have to level the squad to unlock upgrades. that is 5 skill points that is 75-100k xp for one squad and that is much higher requirement than 180k exp with all squads.

[Adamnpee]

That’s your pseudo argumentation to counter points I have never said in the first place, so…

I really don’t want to participate in pointless discussions again and again. I said my points.

[robihr]

@Adamnpee

No, you have to convert spare exps to free exps via premium currency.

Is completely normal for games like this. And it’s obviously broken in enlisted

@Adamnpee

There’s estimated 10% of playerbase for which exp system is completely broken atm.
Which just isn’t healthy for the game. And obviously something needs to done.

That’s why I think spare exps should be behind paywell. Easiest and pretty reasonable solution.

@Adamnpee

Completely broken economy is huge problem for the health of game. No incentives to buy premium currency and so > inevitable shut down of servers.

@Adamnpee

My suggestions were only focusing to fix core broken elements of current economics.

@Adamnpee

I’ve literally wasted all my millions in first few days of merge. And I am constantly at basically zero.

That’s exactly how healthy economic should look like.

And obv, spare exps in their current state are huge issue

@Adamnpee

I just said that I can’t invest into anything in enlisted. And hoarding resources in your wallet just like that is prime example of unhealthy economy.

@Adamnpee

I don’t know how any of this is related for spare exps completely breaking up economy for 10% of playerbase (according to CM who shared this information on Russian forum, link was posted somewhere in this discussion).

The majority which you have mention will never get to point, where they can hoard spare exps to complete broke economy.

@Adamnpee

Well, still nothing impressive. I’ve been playing the game for just two years. And I’ve seen people who invested way more time into to the game than me.

And you really don’t be some extreme huge whale to have significant boost to exp. All you need is wait for sales, buy year of premium account for 20 bucks and some another decent premium squad for 30 bucks.
If this game is main interest to you, you’ll be easily able whole German faction in one year.
And other faction even in more significant pace.

Of course, it’s also a matter of how well you play and how much you focus on grinding effectively.

I was incredibly serious about grind before merge came along. I had all the German campaigns done, about half the content for the Soviets, 3/4 content for the US done, and the Japanese were 100% completed.

I had only been playing the game for about 1 and a half years at that point.

And yes, I don’t see why casual players, who contribute about as much to the interest and flow of the game as the bots, should somehow be rewarded more.

If they play badly, they don’t want to commit to the game. So in that casw, like I said, either they with their time (a lot of it) or they pay with their money. And I don’t see any problem with that.

The biggest problem with the current economy, and so far I stand by it, is that players are just getting incredibly disproportional ammout of xperience compared to silvers.

Which leads to an incredible number of spending opportunities for players. But they clearly have nothing to pay with.

That creates incredible frustration. And the feeling that they’re just getting an incredibly small amount of silver.
This is something I was saying six months ago.

And personally, I don’t think it would hurt the game at all if getting exps and grind were longer. But when one finally gets something, like a new squad. Then he should be able to just fully equip it, buy equipment, etc. To his liking.

Plus, nowadays, I think a lot of people don’t even play most of the stuff they researched, they treat them as such useless expensive fillers. And he’d rather wait, since he’s about to unlock that better weapon/squad soon anyway, which he’s yet to equip/max upgrade etc too.

That’s why I think it would be absolutely best if the silver gain was increased but at the expense of the experience gain.

This game shouldn’t be a race to get to those strong meta weapons as fast as possible. And then terrorize others with them.

I still see this game as a casual f2p ww2 sandbox where the player can play anything at any time. And the fact that he’s just going to chase after that powerful equipment is completely unnecessary. And because of the lack of silver he won’t even think about other stuff is wrong in my opinion.

It would be better if the player has enough silver, but also time where he won’t yet be able to play with those meta weapons which he’s focusing and are basically his enn goals.
It would be nice if everyone could just go through the entire content of the game first. After all, in this game, with any squad it is possible to destroy, kill, etc absolutely everything. With the fact those better and more specialized stuff just makes it a way easier. But you can play with absolutely everything.

@Adamnpee

That’s why it shouldn’t be capped. But spare exps should be usable only in combination with premium currency.

But optional conversation from spare exps to silvers should be free.

@Adamnpee

I think it’s the most sensible thing to do.
If you want to have some new stuff available immediately the moment it is released, you should pay. Or invest the time and grind the new things like everyone else. That makes perfect sense. Either you pay with your time or with your money.

And if you don’t feel like paying, you can still at least convert your spare exp to silvers. Which means that even once you’ve managed to research all tech trees, you still get some benefits from playing.

@Adamnpee

Doesn’t matter. Time exclusivity is good source of income. I am pretty sure lot of people would pay.

@Adamnpee

I just want this game to have healthy source of income. Rather than necessity to release premium squads with similar power level of newly added japanese paras.

I think this would be very reasonable solution. Players currently are primarily lacking silvers anyway, not exps. Getting exps is nothing extremely tedious or slow.

I think both sides would benefit from this change.

@Adamnpee

It doesn’t matter. Free spare exps is an extremely weird feature I’ve never seen in any f2p game.
And I think it’s more unhealthy for the game than you actually think.
I don’t see any problem if it was monetized. After all, those exps don’t magically cease to exist. You’ll just have to pay if you want to use them for getting newly added content immediately once it’s released. Or you will have to grind normally like everyone else. That seems very reasonable to me.

And you are definitely wrong about not buying levels for golds. Time exclusivity is for some people more important that it seems. Some would definitely pay.

@Adamnpee

You could still convert them completely for free to silvers, if you are not willing to pay. Meaning, you would still get some additional resources from it.
So you are wrong.

@Adamnpee

These are two completely separate suggestions. I’m just giving out several ideas for improving the current apparently dysfunctional economy. I have never said they should implement all my suggestions at once.
Rather, I’m just pointing out some directions that developers could take.

And next time, please quote the whole justification and not just a fragment taken out of context.

@Adamnpee

That’s your point of view. But unlike you, I don’t want to live in some pseudo-socialist world. Where everyone gets anything without any effort.

I believe my suggestions are completely reasonable. And I think it’s up to developers to decide what’s best for their product.
It’s neither up to you or me.
You are always welcome to make your own suggestions.

@Adamnpee

Don’t be ridiculous, Joe. I just want this game to have more healthy economy. And I don’t need any free gold lol.

I am just trying to be unbiased and offer actually releastic and meaningful suggestions. Unlike suggestion like “silver income should be increased 5x times”.

And I am not even mentioning reactions like " devs bad, they want to steal everything from us".

I wish the very best for the game I like, that’s all.

@Adamnpee

I am not trying to make economy worse for the players, quite the opposite xD

Plus player count is definitely not extremely low. It’s issue only because of complex queue MM which seperates teams by faction. A thing that’s not even in WT, where teams are made up completely by several random factions.

Btw., if the current trend is going continue. Enlisted on steam is going to beat HLL pretty soon. Enlisted managed to hit nearly 5000 simultaneously active players at peak. Meanwhile HILL has nearly 9000.

And I don’t know why should broken and easily abusable economy be considered as benefit for a new upcoming players.
Quite the opposite, it’s significant issue on long run.

lets summarize your points

1. need to increase xp grind and increase silver gain - cause you have problem with silver(aka “healthy economy”) and have loads of xp
2. it is obvious to everyone that spare xp breaks economy (still no real argument behind this)
3. put spare xp behind paywall (cause long live capitalism)
4. it is broken economy cause it provides no incentives to buy premium nor currency
5. 10% of playerbase is only people that matter(basically those who have spare xp), f casuals, f those without skill, f those without money. people should be spending hundreds of dollars in this game to keep it alive and game should force people to pay more either with time or with money
6. game shouldnt only be about meta weapons. people should have enough silver to buy and play non meta weapons
7. time exclusivity is good source of money
8. you have never seen free spare xp in any f2p game and it is unhealthy cause it is unmonetized
9. you dont want to live in pseudo socialist world where you get anything without any effort
10. these suggestions are making economy better for the player

so lets kill all your arguments one by one.

1. economy shouldnt be based upon you. i have quite contrary situation, i have 1 million silver and not enough xp. should we increase xp gain 4x and decrease silver gain 2x cause that is my situation?
   but we can all overall agree that silver gain is too low.
2. not obvious. think you are equalizing this with real economy where there is circulation of assets, so someone hoarding extreme amounts of money will lead to reduced economic growth (or recession)
3. no comment needed
4. this was whole point of previous post. new weapon to grind doesnt provide incentive to buy premium nor currency. majority veterans even if on f2p can get that weapon within week and bottleneck would still be squad xp that enables upgrades(without upgrades new weapon is usually worse than previous fully upgraded one) and price reduction (which is needed cause silver economy is bad)
5. cant really make this up. imagine having casuals in f2p game. imagine not having them. would you enjoy PvE? imagine having f2p players in f2p game. imagine not having them. would you enjoy dead game? what incentive do casuals and f2p players have to play this game if they are treated like shit? do you think that people would enjoy just getting pummeled by whales? there is reason why people hate p2w games and even people with significant purchasing power avoid them.
6. actually i agree with this, but there is no way to enforce it. majority of people who have meta weapons would still just dunk on new players cause of shit MM queues.
7. yeah introduce more fomo events. do you know why people call this game p2w? cause some unique mechanics are locked behind events/paywall. just check steam reviews about people complaining about p2w paratroopers.
8. well this thing has been disproved. WOWS (and probably all other wargaming games have it)
9. well spare xp was earned either through time or through money or combination of both. it was not given freely
10. only suggestion about increasing silver. your suggestions about xp and spare xp are totally anti player

[Adamnpee]

@robihr

need to increase xp grind and increase silver gain - cause you have problem with silver(aka “healthy economy”) and have loads of xp

Well, your first point is yet again manipulative af.

I don’t have problems with silvers, I have fully equipped at least 5 presets of 11 squads for all factions (with exception of Japan, for which I don’t have BR1 and BR4 presets)

I still have many spare soldiers I could sell in legacy squads I still haven’t touched since the merge. I have plenty weapons in storage.

I just like spending, and I would have close to zero even if silver income would be 300% higher.
As long as there would be something to spend on, ofc.

To portrait it like I have “problem with silvers” is just ridiculous. And your intention is very clear.

---

I’m not really going to study the rest of your super long spam, I guess it’s going to be all the same on similar note.

You’ll try to make my arguments about me, that I just have some personal interests of my own and/or you’ll manipulatively try to convince others as if I have no idea about expirences of other players. And bla bla bla.

You are just insecure that you’ll no longer be able to take advantage of imperfect system.

[VoyoMayPL]

@Adamnpee

you’ll manipulatively try to convince others as if I have no idea about expirences of other players

You suggest to make grind longer so apparently you don’t.

[Adamnpee]

@VoyoMayPL

You suggest to make grind longer so apparently you don’t.

Not really, since currently players are mostly hard capped by silvers, not exps (unless they have silvers from selling pre merge soldiers)

[VoyoMayPL]

“You are starving so lets cut off your water supply because you have plenty of it”

[Adamnpee]

That’s bizarre comparison.

[VoyoMayPL]

Because your idea is bizarre

Ppl complain they need to grind too much to get silver and your solution is to make everything else equally bad.

[Adamnpee]

@VoyoMayPL

Ppl complain they need to grind too much to get silver and your solution is to make everything else equally bad.

Majority of people will always be complaining about not having enough recourses, we don’t live in communism.

I have no clue why everybody should have everything without any effort whatsoever and completely for free

[VoyoMayPL]

True
But with your ideas we will live in an anarcho capitalist distopia.

@Adamnpee

I have no clue why everybody should have everything without any effort whatsoever and completely for free

Yeah, because a bit less grind = get for free without any effort.
You are so out of touch.

[Adamnpee]

@VoyoMayPL

Yeah, because a bit less grind = get for free without any effort.

Lol, this is such a stupid statement.

People can always say, “lower it just a little bit”.

That’s just not how it works, monetizing the grind is the healthiest way how to monetize (unless the game has ambitions to monetize purely through cosmetic stuff.)

The more you reduce the importance of grind, the more you open the door for OP premium squads and similar p2w features likw premium squad slots.

And it could be even worse then, they could come up with OP premium squads that we could get only trough rng loot boxes. And similar gacha shit.

You just want to absolutely kill the fundamental aspect of the game without caring at all about anything other than your personal interests.
If you don’t like grind. Obviously, game that has tech tree is not going to be for you.

[VoyoMayPL]

True
But I can make a counter argument that too much grind will simply make ppl not play because it’s a waste of their time.

So there nedds to be some kind of a middle ground. And imo current exp gain is ok-ish for me as a very casual player. So I don’t want to increase it.