I have agreed before that the MP40/41 can use a nerf. It is unrelated to the current conversation of how SMGs in general interact with flinch compared to how bolt actions interact with flinch, as it is an outlier that is more powerful than basically every other SMG in the game rn. As such, once it gets nerfed, it would be in line with the rest of the SMGs, which is what we should use as metric when considering whether to keep or get rid of flinch
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So now you want to save yourself by bringing smgs when I am speaking about rifles,and german rifles are user friendly that is just your perspective not a fact but it deals less damage compared to soviet rifles it is a FACT.
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Yes…
The fact its not difference at all. Be honest - 13 or 14 damage is quite equal and doesnt feels much different.
As i sad before - I play totally unupgraded german squads in Moscow batlle. Its like Normandy ones. I dont upgrade their weapons, they are 4 or 5, not more, i dont give them aditional equpiment exept stock. And…
it feels good.
I got 90% kills with Gewer 33/40 with no upgardes. It deadly, kills almost every target at one kill. I really dont know what are you complain about.
It have less recoil, its have a good aim and there is no difference between 13 and 14 damage at all. And while i play I dont feel flinch are problem.
Idk how long do you play but german rifles already been buffed November 2020. With upgardes it quite equal to Mosins damage.
And still we have brilliant german MGs - ZB and MG with ultra good damage and recoil comparing to old rusty Madsen, we have laser MP40/41, we have strong PZ.II kills t-60 in turret and unbeatable by front shots of T-60. Isnt that enough?
Upgraded guns go from 14.4 to 15.5. This is the diffrence between consistent oneshots or two-shots against premium soldiers with the bonus health.
But in normandy there is nobody with +35% health, so you effectively deal more damage there than you would in Moscow with upgraded guns.
We still are just talking about bolt actions.
This has been talked about many times before and they still are mostly balanced as there are tradeoffs.
Your T-60 gets double the magazine capacity and is more compact. It still is invulnerable in the hull against the Pz2. Is the ability to shoot twice as much not enough? You literally only have to shoot not the front. Same with the Pz2. If you want to kill the T-60 with it, you generally have to flank, or camp the gunner over and over.
Indeed, even with health perks guys on the field i feel comfortable to play against.
Its true but even that I dont need to play and have fun.
Imagine Im the guy who enter game at the first time - i have a little aim skill from a RO2 so Iaint seen somebody i cant shot during a 10 and more games like that. Sometimes prems doesnt killed by one shot but wait is it the thing they spend so many time to obtain? or pay a money. If you dont let Premiums at close range deal with them also nice.
You can got +100% exp bonus by killing them btw (suggestion)
No, you CAN kill gunner of T-60 at front by PZ.II, T-60 cant kill anybody in front of PZ.II. And that is a fact we discuss many times before. Are we still talking only about bolt rifles btw?
There is no need for the squad to offer this many advantages. Literally having the unique camo and gun be obtainable in boxes and more XP gain would have been enough.
Which does not kill the tank. If that tanker immediately swaps soldiers, he can get his gun back online and shoot back before the Pz2 reloads. Meanwhile, there have been cases of T-60s sniping the turret of a Pz2 even at 100m+. So it is not impossible. But if either gets a side shot on the other, the T-60 has a massive advantage with its double magazine. You just prefer the frontal penetration over the double magazine and smaller silhouette. I flank when using my tanks, so I very rarely run into a front-to-front engagement. The T-60 would benefit me greatly as both its advantages give you better flanking possiblities.
There is a litlle difference between
and
Dont you think? Its like fight against big guy with minigun which only can be shot in a leg. Its not imposible, of course. But 9/10 times you will be shot first. And it always happens.
I agree it`s no need so many amount of advantages. Like full 5 stars, overperforming stats, full upgraded guns etc. But you still can kill em then you are newbie. To be honest you can kill anybody (except PZ.II on T-60 in front). That is my video was about. They are not ruin game at all. Even with a flinch.
If we put my arguments in this comparison, you can also kill them in one shot by getting next/behind them while they would still have to shoot you 3 times in those cases.
Each tank has its advantages. You simply choose whichever advantage you like best and ignore all others.
Soviet rifles deal more damage.
“But the German sights are better so german rifles are better and extra damage doesnt matter”
T-60 has double the magazine capacity and is smaller, allowing it to be much more powerful when flanking enemy tanks
“But I die when I go head on with enemy tank so enemy tank OP”
Please consider both sides.
Yes, I agree MP40/41 are too powerful as the gun they compare to, the PPK, is weaker. However, the PPD does have a lot to offer that the MPs don’t so in no universe are the MPs strictly better than the PPDs.
Sure, you can prefer them. But they are not strictly better.
Its not that simple as you want it to be. As we sad before - extra damage of bolt rifles doesnt give any advantage. Prems still be deadly on close range but controlable at middle. You should allow that PPD on mid range too weak against german rifleman. But MP40/41 still rolling against soviet rifleman on mid range, so yes, soviet rifleman needs more firepower against strong mid laser MP40/41.
The second - you dont need to flank at any german tank. Btw - it was their doctrine - always flanking. At PZ III F you have 5 members of crew and that gives you great advantage aganst BT-7 with 3 members. So, every german tank are better. I dont even talk about BT-7 paper armor. The fact, all gear mostly better at axis side. I dont even talk about lmg - they are much much stronger - from round capacity to recoil and damage. You can discuss it as long as you want but it still a fact you cant deny.
Except, as said, it does. I have noticed drastically increased performance when using the better rifles, especially when upgraded, as the differences get even larger. G33 can’t oneshot on shoulder hits or waist hits even when upgraded, but the 15 damage rifles can perform those oneshots once upgraded.
Non-upgraded G33s can not oneshot vitality perk soldiers without neck/head shots, while 15 damage rifles can torso oneshot.
You get 71 rounds of ammo to spray at close range. Nothing in the German side even gets close to that. Again, nothing is strictly better.
“every player in a PvP game benefits when their opponent is not facing them, doing something else”. YOU CHOOSE NOT TO FLANK. YOU are HANDICAPPING yourself by not flanking. The T-60 can easily defeat a Pz2 simply by playing intelligently.
Pz3E*. We don’t get the 50mm frontal armor, nor do we get a 50mm gun
You’re not gonna mention the fact that the BT-7 gets a MUCH better gun, MUCH better mobility, more sloped (read: bouncy) armor and actually usable HE? Once again ignoring all the advantages your side has to portray the other side as OP.
Hmm yes I totally have an advantage with 20-25rds vs your 25rds. Madsen recoil is 30/30. ZB36 is 44/19, so depending on whether you favor horizontal or vertical, either can be better. The MG13 has lower recoil, but both ZB and MG weigh more than the madsen. MG damage is literally identical between all 3 guns. 12 at 10m, 8.4 at 400m. The only diffrence is firerate, a stat that you can’t always use with the ammount of recoil you have.
Looking at it objectively:
Tanks - mostly balanced
Rifles - soviet better (sights are subjective)
SMGs - MP40/41 best, but outside of those, mostly balanced
MGs - mostly balanced, MG13 might be sliightly too strong
Shotguns - soviet better (anything better than nothing)
Planes - subjective preferences
Buildings - Soviets get better HE on the AT gun than Germany, so Soviets better.
Pistols - Germany better
AT rifles - PTRD is somewhat bugged (aka unintentially weaker) in damage, other performance is subjective preferences
Mortar/flamethrower/launcher rifle: balanced
Let’s count them up:
Outside of 4 guns (MP40/41, MG13, PTRD) needing changes to make them balanced, the Pistols are better for Germany and the rifles are better for Soviets. And you get a shotgun. And better AT cannon.
I can very much debunk your “fact”
Now that said, how about we go back to the topic at hand - why SMGs are the only gun benefitting from flinch in any noticable degree and how we should reduce or remove flinch to balance SMGs as a weapon type as a whole.
Every Soviet player when losing a weapon balance argument:
"But but but PPD sucks…"
I used to use it fine without the reduced recoil benefit against vastly better German SMGs compared to now during alpha and a few game here and there now. And this is the first FPS I’ve played in like the last 5 or 6 years, so aim is terrible. If you are still complaining about weapon balance, then the solution is simple, get competent enough or stop playing.
Is this some kind of phrase like “axis players does more teamplay” or other unconfirmble thoughts? I tell you about tank stats not a gameplay. You talk about something like - it cant be penetrated so you should flank it. I have no choise then. I JUST CANT CHOOSE. I have to flank or my T-60 will be burned. Follow your logic - then you fire at shoulder YOU CHOOSE not to fire at the HEAD with one shotkill
Do you want to say double barrel can be used in battle against Mp or Ka98? I have to say you play for a while to admit nobody use it. It have 7 seconds reload after one shot. It aint kill even at mid distance. Its a meme gun valuable only for a funny video.
And AT-guns… Its just not funny. People use it like 10 times less often then a tanks. But i suppose it pretty balanced.
You completely confirm the fact mostly useble weapons are op. And slightly more damage by soviet rifles balanced by MP40/41 at mid range and bad aim. Lets discuss it at special topic. Guess we need to free flinch for a while.
And this man told our commuinity is toxic. Okkkkk.
I m not complaining. I just told weapon balance on the axis side. The fact then you fire at MP41 unit with your PPD at the mid range - MP41 have a big advantage. It can be used like an assault rifle. But while you firing at PPD like that you spend a whole 73 rounds and doubtly kill 1 or 2 units from 200 meters. And there is a huge difference. You DONT need to be competent enough firing MP41. This way I can be “competent enough” to play only with axe or a knife.
And yes. Lets discuss it in a special topic not here, pls.
How is that even toxic. I did not call out anyone specifically nor was there anything racist about it and I did not mean it in a literal sense. Don’t get me started on ‘your’ community being toxic.
PPD has it’s advantage too. It has enough ammo to wipe two whole squads before reload. It’s perfect for room clearing and that is what it should be used for. MP-40(since we are comparing free SMGs) cannot be used for the same or atleast not as efficiently. Imo problems started when Soviets were given the chance to play invasion as the attackers. PPD is better suited in defense.
It’s a good mechanic I full support being unable to engage SMGs at range with my bolt action because their wild spraying landing a glancing hit on me 
I’m so absolutely sick of it, it has no place in this game and serves only to make it less fun.
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Flinch gives advantages to the person who land the first shot, its a garbage mechanic that rewards camping and high accuracy high rof weapon. It’s awful.
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Can flinch stop making me look at 90° when i get shot?
some gunfights end on flinch with the opponent looking away basically making the fight unfair.
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Ayy it seems like they got rid of it on SMGs. God bless!
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