Perk Balance Megathread

TL;DR: Full breakdown of all perks, with grades and proposed balance changes. Also new perk suggestions

Today I will be making my own perk balance megathread, as I was unsatisfied with all the existing perk megathreads. I will be catagorizing all perks (although I might have missed some more perks, so it will be updated over time) in catagory and cost, as well as giving them a rating based on their cost in comparison to other perks in that catagory.

So to clarify things, each soldiers gets a random ammount of perk slots, divided into three catagories:

  • Feet/Boot, or mobility
  • Heart, or vitality
  • Fist, or firepower

Higher rank/star soldiers get more total slots and each catagory has its own limit as to how much perk slots it has, shown as followed:
PerkSlots
This soldier has 6 mobility slots available with 0 used, 8 vitality slots with 8 used, and 8 firepower slots with 7 used. This means this soldier can no longer obtain any perks that cost vitality, or that cost more than 1 firepower. This affects your final perk choices, even though those choices are RNG based. Furthermore, it is possible to retrain soldiers that are already maxed out using retraining points:
Retrain
Using a retraining perk allows you to re-roll a perk. You get the option to either keep the current perk, or take one of two new random perks. Note that you do still need the required ammount of perk slots!

The ratings will be done as followed:
S - should be used on every soldier it fits on, only reserved for godlike perks
A - only S should be picked over A, extremely potent perks
B - good, but there are better picks
C - not good, not bad
D - should be avoided if you can
F - if you use these, you are probably meming

So lets start with universal perks, or perks with no costs:

  • Stamina regeneration:
    This perk affects the rate at which your stamina bar goes back up. It is a very underwhelming perk as the ammount of cases where you need it is very low. Generally, more stamina gets the job done much better. Grade: D
    UStaminaRegen
  • Pose changing:
    This perk affects the speed at which the soldier goes from one pose to another. For example, from sprinting, to being ready to fire. While this is a somewhat decent effect, it gets drastically outperformed by other perks as the 150% isn’t super noticable. Grade: D
    UPoseChange
  • Weapon changing:
    This perk affects the speed at which you can swap between weapons and equipment. This does include knifes and grenades, which makes it a solid pick if you enjoy running with knifes (as that is much faster than running with normal weapons out) or using grenade spam Grade: C
    UWeaponChanging

On to the mobility perks:

  • Crawl/Crouch speed:
    This perk increases your movement speed while not standing or running by 60%. While the mobility increase is definitely noticable, it generally can’t be used to gain an advantage in combat directly. Rather, it is used to increase your movement speed when downed, allowing you to get into cover faster to patch yourself up. Snipers and Gunners do also like this perk as they prefer to crouch or go prone when shooting Grade: C
    2MCrawlCrouch
  • Jump height:
    This perk increases your maximum jump height by 40%. Sadly, I have been unable to confirm whether it allows you to climb up buildings. If it does, this would be a solid B as sniping from rooftops is pretty powerful (but not better than B because of your entire squad needing it). Otherwise, it is a straight up F.
    3MJumpHeight
  • Climb speed:
    This perk affects climb speed. It costs a whopping 4 mobility points and its effect is rarely used in combat. Its only saving grace is that the other mobility perks are about as bad as this one. Grade: D
    4MClimbing

Next up is vitality:

  • Max stamina:
    A simple, cheap, yet extremely effective perk, that allows you to run for twice as long as normal. Note that soldiers with this perk do not spawn with their stamina bar maxed out, instead they spawn with the normal ammount of stamina (bug? probably feature). It is always a good pick as it allows you to run to capture points much quicker than normal. Grade: A
    2VStamina
  • Health regeneration:
    An extremely underwhelming perk. Health regeneration gives you double the health regeneration out of battle. The issue is that you need 30+ seconds before the regeneration kicks in, after which you will most likely have used a medkit as you were still in combat and you needed the health, meaning the perk will practically never kick in. Of course, there is a point to be made about risking your soldier’s life by waiting for the health regen to save a medkit. Depending on your playstyle, this might go from a B to a F
    3VHealthRegen
  • Medpack effectiveness:
    This perk changes all normal medkits into advanced medkits, meaning that if you have progressed enough to have a bunch of advanced medkits, this perk becomes useless. Furthermore, because of its perk cost, it is very poorly situated in the end-game, where there are much better vitality perks (see further down). Because its effectiveness early in your progress, it is good for low star soldiers, but you will never want it on high level soldiers, meaning it needs 2 grades: Early grade: A. Late grade: F
    4VMedpack
  • Vitality:
    This perk gives 35% more vitality. I am still in the process of testing this perk, but it seems to give you a 35% damage resistance, as the health bar size does not increase, unlike with +100% stamina. It costs a grand total of 8 vitality, meaning you will never see it on soldiers with less than 4 stars. It is a must have if you are lucky enough to get the option for it. Grade: S
    8VVitality

Lastly, there is firepower:

  • Maximum ammo:
    Another cheap, core perk that every soldier wants. Ammo reserves can be low sometimes and this perk makes sure you can kill dozens of enemies before running dry. Grade: A
    2FAmmo
  • Shot spread:
    This perk is a bit weird as very few weapons actually have a sizable ammount of shot spread. Most gun inaccuracy is because of recoil, not because of spread, meaning this perk is next to useless. Grade: F
    3FShotSpread
  • Bolt action firing rate:
    A good perk if you are using it on a soldier that uses bolt action rifles for sniping. Annoyingly, it can also show up on soldiers that do not have the ability to carry bolt action rifles. Furthermore, it is not enough to allow bolt action users to move into closer ranges where automatic weapons reign supreme. Note that anti-tank rifles such as the PzB38 are not considered bolt action and are unaffected by this perk (tested and confirmed). This again requires a buildaround grade: B if you plan on sniping, F for anything else.
    4FBAFireRate
  • Weapon reload:
    This perk is very good for weapons with long reload times, such as the LMGs and SG (shotgun). However, it does not affect weapons that have to cycle a bolt or action between firing, such as with bolt actions and anti-tank rifles. Furthermore, it costs a whopping 5 firepower perk points, meaning it is a real investment and will probably prevent you from using other firepower perks. Because of this, I must grade this at an D for anything other than LMG and SG users, for who it is a B.
    5FWeaponReload
  • Vertical recoil:
    This perk effectively eliminates any vertical recoil while standing, which makes it extremely potent for automatic weapon users. Note that this perk might result in you having more vertical recoil when crouched than when standing and it does not affect horizontal recoil. A perk cost of 7 means you can not use any other firepower perk unless you got a 5 star or veteran soldier that has 9 firepower perk slots, which makes it only desirable for weapons like the PPDs, MG13 and DP-27, where it gets the grade of S. In other situations, it is a C at best.
    7FRecoil
  • Horizontal recoil:
    This perk effectively eliminates any horizontal recoil while standing, however, vertical recoil will always be heavier than horizontal recoil and due to the perk costs, you can not have both the horizontal and vertical recoil perks at the same time. Only consider this if you are really good at managing vertical recoil. Grade: D.
    8FRecoil

For perk changes, I suggest the following:

Universal:

  • Stamina regen: increase effect to 150-200%
  • Pose change: increase effect to 200-400%, so it becomes more noticable, but not make it unnatural.
  • Weapon changing: increase effect to 75%-100% or make it so the swap animation starts earlier, but that would tie into the pose change issue. Alternatively, this perk’s effect could be changed to allow weapon swapping at any time, including when crawling or sprinting.
    This would make the universal perks desirable and not a last ditch choice because you used all perk slots.

Mobility:

  • Movement speed while crawling or crouching should also affect the rate at which you get in/out of those poses. Not sure what else to change
  • Jump height: Simply make sure it is enough for a soldier to jump while looking up, then grab the ledge of a building to climb on top of it. Maybe allow soldiers to pull other soldiers up on buildings so not the entire squad needs it? Perk cost should get increased to 4+ if this goes through
  • Faster climbing: should get its perk cost reduced to 3

Vitality:

  • Stamina is perfect, stay as is
  • Health regen needs a 100% faster cooldown (so 50% less time) until regeneration kicks in, around 10-15 seconds should be good. Maybe have a perk indicator on the soldier to remind the user not to use medpacks? Alternatively could increase the bleedout timer
  • Medpack effectiveness should speed up the revive speed when downed
  • Vitality needs more testing, stay as is for now

Firepower:

  • Max ammo is perfect, stay as is. Maybe increase base ammo for all soldiers for 1 magazine and thus increase the extra ammo by another magazine as well?
  • Shot spread should reduce weapon sway when shell shocked (but not completely nullify it), after quick turning of the weapon and when zoomed
  • BA firing rate should affect fire rate of any weapon that isn’t semi or fully automatic, including the revolvers, anti-tank rifles, etc, as well as see an increase to maybe 30%
  • Reload speed should see an increase to 30-35% as 24% isnt quite enough for what it asks of you, as well as affecting vehicle/engineer building weaponry
  • Recoil should affect recoil in every position, including crouching and crawling, as well as reducing horizontal recoil by 20% or so, to make it desirable for more weapon types. Might make it too powerful though.

In addition to this, here are some community proposed perks (updated the more people react to this thread):

  • Repair speed:
    100% faster repair of vehicles
    Cost: Universal/None
    Details: To make this work, you should be able to repair allied vehicles that arent your own by equipping repair kits on normal soldiers. Planes also need to be able to get repaired. This perk will affect the speed at which repair and extuingishing of fires happen.
  • Sprint speed:
    15% faster sprint speed
    Cost: 2 mobility
    Details: increases movement speed when sprinting.

I hope this thread will also lead to the creation to some new stratigies by combining certain perks.
Happy discussing! :slight_smile:

6 Likes

Well I won’t deny that I was waiting for you to start the post, obviously learned few stuff. For the crawling/crouching this get really insane on sniper soldiers as the have the same base perk at 21%, it also work when bleeding it allow to very swiftly hide into nearby object then heal.

I won’t deny that the perks overall feels more lackluster than anything else with very few standing out, what it needs is the universal perks to be more fleshed out & soldier type specific ones. For the universal ones they need to sorta have applicability in most of the situations that are like it i.e. jump height & climb being combined (numbers are to be tuned accordingly).

All in all I would like the developers to experiment on this front too along side the lootbox system (Logistics) (changing it into something else).

Good chart but I would definitely put 4VMedpack to best possible tier because with that when you revive yourself you are already on full HP, normally you need 2-3 more medpacks after reviving to get full health

It is good until you get advanced medkits. Advanced medpacks can heal you to full with 1 use (as this perk simply upgrades normal medpacks to the level of advanced medpacks), fully nullifying the need for the medpack perk, as mentioned in the thread.

I have almost unlocked the Beretta 38 and only have received 2 Advanced medkits so far

I got 4 advanced medkits so far and only barely unlocked the M38 with 2 M38s in my inventory. But at some point you will have everything unlocked, lowering the need for that perk. That is something you should keep into consideration

Still, i have 4 squads with 5 equipment slots and usually have 3 medkits per guy, thats roughly 6x4x3=72 advanced medkits required to make the +200% healing perk inefficient

Today I learned about retraining soldiers for better perks. Added it to the thread, make sure to read up on that as well as it helps a bunch!

1 Like

Most of the time you will still pick from the ones you were given making the system pointless, note that even clicking on the reroll would remove that perk, still the options you are left with are the same.

I’m yet to know what the “Veteran soldier class” means (as there is an upgrade perk to get soldiers to 5 stars).

image

This last highlighted line is either a lie or not implemented yet since the perks are the same with the same power/effect/numbers after rerolling into them. Again a developer to shed light is really needed here.

overhall, you took quite a lot time in making this whole thread, which, good time, effort and details. someone that knoes how to do things in big and well made around here <3.

but, i feel like ( with no offence, ) that your opinion should be out of the thread, since technically, it’s a suggestion of rebalancing some perks, delete others, or add more.
in poor words, i don’t get how or why you are judging perks by giving them a “grade”, it’s personal, and not consistent actually if you know what i mean. like:

i use this perk whenever i can equip it, because it’s usefull when you have to move fast, and keep up with the fight.
but i wouldn’t put it as a grade F.

again, it shouldn’t be avoided, since it’s great for sniper. when they have to take cover, reload, and stand up for shooting again.

same it goes for assaulter, and first i mentioned, it’s by gameplay style. and very situationl. but not pointless.

it’s just your opinion.

i disagree. most of the time it saves med kits pack so can be used when badly injured or downed.

but enough focusing on opinions. i mean, don’t get me wrong, i respect your opinion. because it’s fondamental of every single member of this community. but when making a megathread, i think that " grades " shouldn’t be used, since it’s for personal uses.
anyway, now i wanna focus more on this;

  1. i could agree on this one, but than it should take double of the requirement.
  2. i don’t think this would be accurate, nor gameplay friendly. i don’t think we would actually like to see a soldier that almost moves like a skilled reflex modern robots.
  3. i would disagree. because as right now, the soldier that has weapon switch perk it’s very fast. i still have to remember that in second world war, straps were kinda clumsy. not allowing soldiers to use pistols that quickly like now days.
  1. totally agree.
  2. couldn’t have been said better
  3. i would say 2*
  1. no doubt
  2. err, no. i don’t wanna see people recovering that fast. and after 5 seconds they are already to fight like nothing happened.
    if this is gonna be a thing, i might suggest than to nerf it like in battlefield 5. you have health regeneration, but only up to 60/75% of the max health.
  3. in my opinion should be removed. i used and my soldiers survived from 3 shots of a mosin. 2 at the legs, and one at the torso. took a fourth bullet to take down my soldier.
  1. err, i don’t really understand why this perk, but sure. since right now, your squad soldiers are an endless ammo carrier in your back.
  2. i would agree, but not at the point that will make shock effect useless.
  3. i would personally delete this park, and give it by default with each stars. since also in real life people with experience know how to reload properly the gun that they are using.
  4. fair enogh for me
  5. i’m worry that could be op. since weapons are still weapons with they stats and proper recoil.
  1. nope, no and never.
    sorry, but in my opinion it should at least take manpower. since in real life, only experience engineer should be able to repair, and even if such, it requires good force. i dont only relay on real life aspect, but gameplay and common sense wise.
  2. yep, this could work.

conclusion,
i’m sorry if i disagree with many points, but overhall, i think perk aspect it’s a really sticky and dangerous question. it’s already known that we can’t avoid supersoldiers, since the veteran class has been added. but at least we should limit this.

last thing, i think there are other perks needed.
especially for vehicle crew.

like, more perks for gunner, driver or commander.

more precisely,

  • turn turret speed ( but i can understand that could also depend from vehicle )
  • turn speed of the vehicle
  • different manovrability ( better grip off road )

and many others.
if you got any others, be my guest.
overhall, good job for keeping alive the forum <3

The turn speed should be affected a lot by a soldiers experience because the tanks we have in Moscow have a lot of hand cranked turrets.

The drivers perks could be for example to make the tank accelerate faster since he can change gears better.

A loaders perk would be kinda obvious but really usefull.

I tried to grade the perks in comparison to similar perks. For example, if you could fit it on your soldier, why would you use stamina regen over more stamina?

After previous comments about some hidden tricks surrounding crawl/crouch speed affecting your speed when downed, I think I will raise it’s grade and update it’s detail description for it.

Climb speed is rarely used my an average player. I try to rate on average useage, of course you should always tailor your perk choices to your own style. This is mostly ment to give a general idea as to what is good/bad for new-ish players.

Unless you get out of combat and you know you wont get back into combat for a while, you would use a medkit to patch yourself up. Again, this is a matter of playstyle. Would you rather be ready for the next fight, or risk being unprepared to maybe save a medpack?

I’ll adjust some of the suggestions for the perk fixes, as well as some of the grades

as to the repair thing, I personally think it would be a great improvement towards team play. The devs could nerf the base repair speed by 50%, then make it 150% from how it is right now with the perk.

Lastly, I will implement your perk suggestions if you can give me accurate descriptions of how they should work.

Alright, I modified the thread according to your points, give it another read :stuck_out_tongue:
To be clear: I do want the grades to stay in there, but I want to incorporate as much community feedback into said grades as possible. Just like with my balance megathread, there needs to be some kind of verdict about the strength of the perk for an average player.

1 Like

can i just say you are my favorite poster on the forums here, you always give great feed back. i hope i get to play with you some day!

2 Likes

how to retain perks…i could not understand it pls help

retain as in keep,
or retrain as in get new ones on a maxed out soldier?

in keep! also tell me both if possible

you can not keep any perks when you send a soldier to the academy to level them up

you can new ones on a maxed out soldier by leveling them up past their max level. For each extra level, you get 1 perk reroll point that you can use to reroll one of his perks.

not so user friendly the academy …and also the logistics is bugged

If logistics is bugged you should make a report on it. This thread is ment for perks :slight_smile: