Myrm1dons BR Adjustment Compilation (Suggestion)

Suggestions
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Firstly Thank you! for finally expanding 2 MM queues :pray: …Better late than never :stuck_out_tongue:

Not to jump the gun, but In the hopes that the new -+1 MM system becomes more permenant, there was mention in the main thread that now is a good time to make some more BR suggestions.

Remember this, is just based on “Opinion” from my experience of using and playing. I have tried to give objective reasoning, feel free to discuss accordingly! Some are no brainers!, others are more…unpopular opinion.

NOTE:

I Maintain that BR 5 equipment is far too “compressed” and needs a BR 6, But as this will require even “more queues”, some BR 5 equipment will just have to be neglected for now.

RED = Moved Up in BR
GREEN = Moved down in BR

*NOTE: This is conisdering a -+1 environment, NOT -+2

Firstly Lets talk SMGS and the changes that were made shortly after the “Merge”.

There were alot of SMGs that were shifted down to BR 2 because of the the 2 MM system, and certain over performing BR 2 weapons (Cough *pps 42/43).

In a -+1 environment, These smgs ramp up in power a little quicker than they need to: (I will avoid commenting too much on Japan as I dont play enough with their Infantry Weapons to comment)

These are my current thoughts, many of which have existed since BR implementation, Subject to change as convinced.

Infantry Small Arms Adjustments

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Each Item Is listed under the BR I Think they belong under.

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BR 1

  • MP 18 : (Premium)

*Reason: About the same as MP 34 (o) at BR 1

BR 3

  • Beretta M1
  • MP 38
  • MP 40
  • ZK-383 (moved after Merge But I want it noted it is suitable to remain here)
  • MP-35 (moved after Merge But I want it noted it is suitable to remain here)

*Reason: They are all solid, comparible mid powerlevel choices. Moved to make room for low performance/capacity smgs

BR 4

  • Gerat: (Premium)

*Reason: is a “semi Auto” (AVS is select fire), with questionable performance at BR 5. Much better fitting at BR 4

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BR 2

  • New Entry: “PPS 42 Early” (lower rate of fire, 460-480)

*Reason: PPS 42/43 is too good for BR 2. Other guns have had their real Rates of fire contained for “Balance Reasons”, this is a reasonable alternative in the absence of an appropriate BR 2 smg

BR 3

  • PPS-42
  • PPS-43

*Reason: Too good for BR 2 and Comparable with other Facitons at BR 3 pre smgs balance. These were the Catalyst and the reason why soo many Factions had to have their SMGs moved down in the 2 MM queue system

BR 4

  • PPSH 41 (Box)

*Reason: Arguably better than the Beretta M38 and the M21/28 Thompson that are both “BR 4” (I mean what is that 0.2 dispersion, seriously??), and a decent progression from BR 3 Smgs

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BR 2

  • Owen MK1 (moved after Merge But I want it noted it is suitable to remain here)

*Reason: Could move back to BR 3 “BUT” IMO escapes the chopping block because the Iron sights SUCK

BR3

  • Lanchester

*Reason: comparable to other Nations Mid power level smgs pre smg balance

Tank Adjustments

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These are Just some thoughts I have on Tanks. These thoughts have also crossed over from years of Warthunder, as it is relevant to their matchups.

The suggestions for BR 4 tanks are part of the over compressed BR 5 vehicles, and a case could be made for them to be BR 4. OR they will just have to tough it out until BR 6 can exist to decompress. (Tiger 2 H for example is BR 6)

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BR 1

  • R75/KS 750

*Reason: Bikes are really low impact. Belongs at BR 1

  • Sd.kfz 7

*Reason: unarmed Transport. No reason it cant be at BR 1 to make room for armed APCS

BR 3

  • 8.8 Flak 37 sfl : (Premium)

*Reason: Another open Topped vehicle with a good gun. No Depression facing forward, No MG, exposed crew, Big, slow and unwieldly with AA gimmick that is not useful in the scheme of things. Crew is exposed so it is an easy target for near anything.

  • 15cm Pz.W.42 : (Premium)

*Reason: Low Armor, Low Crew, Low Ammo. Very easy to knock out by anything and everything (Starting from BR 1) and needs to rearm frequently.

BR 4

  • Tiger H (*Edit, apparantly Tiger H is already BR 4, Tiger E is 5)

*Reason: Panther is BR 4 and better in most areas while having less vulnerabilites to BR 3/4 tanks. Tiger Has alot more flat plate that 57mm, 76 mm, 85mm can dispose of. There is an argument to be made for Tigers 1s to trade BR places with Panthers

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BR 1

  • GAZ AAA

*Reason: unarmed Transport. No reason it cant be at BR 1 to make room for armed APCs

  • BM-8-24: (Premium)

*Reason: Low armor, Low Crew, Low Damage, No depression. Premiums should be enjoyable and relevant

BR 3

  • KV-2: (Premium) (yes adamnpee, I know you object :stuck_out_tongue: )

*Reason is just a gimmick KV- 1 (but much loved). Same armor as KV-1, But the Huge reload tempers its power and allows alot of time for counter play. BR 3 vehicles accross the board are its more appropriate opponents. Far more appropriate than BR 4

BR 4

  • IS 1

*Reason: Its debatable if its any better than a T-34 85

  • SU-85MM

*Reason: Fixed 85mm gun, appropriate opponents are BR 4

  • M4A2 (76): (Premium)

*Reason: Just a 76mm sherman, appropriate Opponents are BR 4

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BR 1

  • WLA/WD Big 4

*Reason: Bikes are really low impact. Belongs at BR 1

  • Studebaker 6 U1

*Reason: unarmed Transport. No reason it cant be at BR 1, to make room for armed APCS

BR 3

  • Achillies Tank Destroyer: (Premium)

*Reason: Great gun, but open topped, Terrible Traverse (might aswell be fixed). BR 3 is a better position, joining the ranks of the dicker max

  • M10 Tank Destroyer

*Reason: Great gun, but open topped, Terrible Traverse (might aswell be fixed). BR 3 is a better position, joining the ranks of the dicker max

BR 4

  • M4A2 (76)

*Reason: Just a 76mm sherman, appropriate Opponents are BR 4

  • Firefly: (Premium)

*Reason: Yes It has an amazing gun, But is just a sherman Hull, and not going to do anything a 76mm , 85mm, or 88mm wont already do to tanks it sees. BR 4 are appropriate Opponents

Plane Adjustments

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Just a note about planes. These adjustments are for “In their current state”. If loadouts are every introduced, this would need alot of attention.

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BR 2

  • IAR 81C.

*Reason: Sorry mate, if it wasnt for the Huge payload, you would be okay at BR 1

  • Ju-87 D-3

*Reason: At the end of the day, its still a “machine gun” armed Stuka. No reason to be a BR higher than the rest of the Stukas or Dauntless bombers. Strictly speaking Stuka D-5 is the superior choice and its BR 2

BR 3

  • FW 190 A-8

*Reason: Not worthy of BR V or even IV (Corsair) when looking at other Nations Fighters. Not only are 190 Flight models broken, But cant really exploit their strengths in Enlisted. P-51 D, and La 5 are BR 3

BR 4

  • Me 410

*Reason: None of the Me410s are really an upgrade over the BF110s. Would put them at BR 3 but it has too many attackers already. In any case, certainly not worthy of BR V. Its a pretty forgetable plane

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BR 3

  • Yak 9T

*Reason: Good plane but more suitable oponents at BR 3 (109-F4). Well armed but Low ammo and no heavy ordnance

BR 4

  • IL-10

*Reason: In Its current State, is perhaps a little underarmed for BR 5

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BR 1

  • Boomerang MK II: (Premium)

*Reason: Bf 109-E-7 Is BR 1 with pretty much the same loadout, and perhaps better performance. The Boomerang does NOT belong at BR 3

BR 2

  • AP-1

*Reason: Lack luster payload, BR 2 Dauntless and Stukas are more effective

BR 3

  • P38-G

*Reason: A little bit too useful for BR 2. Putting it against BF-110s at BR 3

  • Mosquito : (Premium)

*Reason: Pretty comparable to BR 3 BF-110s

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BR 2

  • B5N2

*Reason: no primary weapons, Smaller payload than BR 2 Dauntless. There is a case to be made for BR 1

BR 3

  • D4Y1

*Reason: Primary weapon is a single machine gun, Payload no Bigger than BR 2 attackers of other nations (Dauntles 1000lb, Ju-87 500kg). There is a Case to be made for this being BR 2

A Thought on Tank Destroyers

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In a game like Enlisted, “Tank destroyers” arent as effective as “Tanks with Turrets”. Not only do they have a fixed gun, which is more often than not the same gun on turreted tanks, they often dont have MGS. Maps dont suit fixed gun tank destroyers.

It is my feeling that “nearly” ALL tank destroyers should be available a BR below their turreted counterparts. This would allow them to be a viable option as their role, a Hard counter to tanks!

There would perhaps be some “Exceptions” ofcourse (Ho-Ri and Jagpanther) but ask yourselfs, How many times have you seen a Tank Destroyer used in your years of play. Even if they were available a whole BR lower, they would most likely still be a rare occurance.

This would look like (just somehthing to think about):

BR 1

  • Stug IIIA

BR 2

  • Stug III F
  • Stug III G
  • SU-76mm
  • Ho Ni I
  • Ho Ni III

BR 3

  • Jagdpanzer IV
  • SU 85
  • Achillies

BR 4

  • Panzer IV/70 V
  • SU -100

Just some things to think about, If I have missed any feel free to add with a reason!

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I am probably one of the few that actually uses the ZK 383, and let me tell you it is absolutely the strongest of those weapons.

Recoil is high, but when controlled its a dps laser.

It performs alot like the PPS 43, just has a smaller magazine, however the PPS is even harder to controll ( though still doable )

PPS 43 sitting in BR3 is fair, the PPS 42 seems still fair being in BR2

What I want to tell you, considering that you mentioned BR6 is needed, because too much power is squeezed into BR5…

Move stuff out of BR5 into BR4, and move stuff out of BR4 into BR3, not the other way around, that way we don’t have to add another BR matching queue.

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I rather like it aswell, and have it on my BR 3 Preset. It is good (perhaps “techincally” better), dont get me wrong, but I could put any of those smgs in its place and perform pretty much the same. They all just feel like flavour/side grades to me. If I was going to lean towards one it would probably be the Mp-35 though…

Personally I rate the PPS 42 higher than the 43…Has the right attributes. Pre merge I chose the PPS 42 over the PPSH 41 drum in Stalingrad I liked it that much…:woozy_face:… My feeling is, it is the Gold standard of mid powerlevel SMGS.

Yeah, my thinking was to avoid that, to keep the integrity of BR 3. I think its in a pretty damn good place now. Dont need to bring the power creep down too much (by which I mean Drum mag smgs, selectfires and Assault Rifles). IMO

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This post looks really good!

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Focus mostly on your infantry small arms adjustments and I must say I agree with pretty much everything. This is more or less my general perception. Spot on!

I want to add some more possible changes besides and in line with the changes you propose:

GER

BR I ← MP 18

MP 40 Silenced → BR III

Erma EMP 36 → BR III

Erma EMP → BR III

Erma EMP Silenced → BR III

Browning wz. 1928 → BR IV

BR IV ← StG 45(M)

BR IV ← MKb 42(H)

BR IV ← MKb 42(W)

BR IV ← Horn StG

BR III or IV ← Luftfaust-B

US

BR II ← Browning M1918

UD M42 → BR III

Thompson .30 Cal SMG → BR IV

Lanchester 50 rd → BR IV

W.A.R → BR IV

Colt Monitor → BR IV

Browning M1918A2 → BR IV

USSR

BR IV ← PPD-40

JPN

FN Model 1930 → BR IV

Type 100 SMG (Late) → BR IV or V

Tokyo Arsenal → BR V

KE7 → BR IV

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this is why the vehicle is at br4, same reload as the sherman but with a much much better gun

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Yes I have seen that mentioned and I believe it is reasonable. I should add to OP

yup thats fair, continuing the trend of reverting post merge change

I dont have that one, But I do have the colt Monitor squad, and it is very strong. I suppose its fair

I had given them some thought, MKB in particular, But decided against it just because it moved assault rifles down, and Soviet mains Probably would riot…Unless PPD-40 is accepted compromise.

yes they are all incredibly strong.

Take your word for it.

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Sherman is much more user friendly with Stabliser, Good depression, 2 MGs and a protected crew (from strafing, HE, fire and small arms).

Yes the flak bus gun performace is truly excellent. But getting in a position to use it is the really user unfriendly part in my opinion. Cant really peak, need to be on flat ground or on the downside of a slope, Which means exposed. Sherman wont even need to change shell type to blap the flak bus, because he will probably be on HE killing infantry lol

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Id say the current br1-2 smg’s are fine as they are.
Even the M1 beretta for example obviously is by larger margin by far better than say mp28.

Regardless of that, I dont think any of the current low BR smg’s are so good that they would break the delicate balance of rifles / smg’s.

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German Submachine Guns are in their place, there is no point in touching them,

It’s funny that PPS of early modifications could have a rate of up to 1000

They win only because of the rate of fire, and you don’t take into account other factors like accuracy and spread

Then, using the same logic, we shift ZK -383 to the 4th BR

He already has 2 BR

He is on the 2nd BR because of the MP-40 he is on the 2nd

You won’t take into account the reload time in less than 4 seconds, and the fact that it will punch right through all the tanks on the 3rd BR

A missile launcher that kills Pershings and Jumbos head-on, yeah on the 3rd, have you even played them?

Tiger H1 is already on the 4th BR, Tiger E is on the 5th BR

No, the 3rd BR should have an M10, not Achilles, it already has a powerful cannon that allows it to fight Wehrmacht tanks, and the M10 on the 4th BR cannot resist them with its cannon

This is a Bomber with 3 250 kg bombs, the only aircraft that carries such a load among all Ju 87

Only the missiles of the BF-110 have all the advantages of the missiles from RaketenVerfer; when hit, it kills any heavy tank, but the M8 of Lightning cannot do this

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I only have problems with the ppsh41 box, without it, the Soviets would only have 3 smg to play br1 to br3

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Just a further comment on this, not that i disagree as such, I see the logic. I Just didnt think it was necessary to move some of these as everyone has access to some really strong, fun squads at BR 3, all as powerful as each other, like the many versions of BARs, MG 13 Drums, lewis guns, drum smg premium squad, etc etc etc

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Fair, but I just think these guns are too powerful to face BR II players.

Also we would have Browning M1918A1 in BR III anyway. A slightly worse version.

also notice this:
BR II ← Browning M1918

US lacks a good tech tree mg. It makes sense since GER has MG 13. USSR however, might lack a good equivalent here.

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Why, what is wrong with Bren?
It did a splendid job last time I played BR2.

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What’s your point. Lots of guns don’t have their proper RoF for so called “balance reasons”

No I considered it as a “whole”. Well aware of its gun.

Lots of tanks can punch tickets through the front, 2 to 3 BRs up…what’s your point.

Noted, I missed that one, In that case its well placed.

Also Forgot this one, yes will add

LoL Im sorry, if you really want to stand fast on that, by all means…But D-5 is still the better pick regardless, And by BR 3, you are better off in BF110s. (So really, in the scheme of things, it is inconsequential where this gets placed, a placebo for opposing mains)

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I still think most weapons are fine in their current position
I like this imbalance
This makes players need to think more about fighting methods
Rather than relying on boring balance to allow players with insufficient skills to fight in boring environments

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Panther is honestly too good for BR4, considering that it can knock out Shermans and T-34s fairly easily while their 76mm and 85mm guns struggle with its frontal armor everywhere but several small weakspots. It’s baffling to me that devs thought that Panther and T-34-85 were equal even back in Berlin days.

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Well, Panther used to be terrible because of almost non existing post pen damage. Nowadays it can reliably enough take out IS2 and Pershing.

Yeah… Panther should move to BR5, while regular Tigers should move to BR4.

Tigers have objectively worse frontal armor AND penetration power, Panthers are overall stronger vehicles.

Besides that though, I hate that there is zero reason to pick my premium Jagdpanzer IV L70, wish the devs would give SPGs special anti tank ammo. Also why does it have so little MG ammo?

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That is the closest HA equivalent that Soviet has, and remember that the Panzer 4J was the counterpart of T-34-85 (D-5T) in Berlin.

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KV2 takes out every tank with HE, even Tiger II H.
BR4 is fine, yes it kinda hurts historical accuracy considering that KV tanks shouldn’t show up past BR2. But by that same logic should Tiger be a BR3 vehicle, considering it was used as early as Leningrad.