Medic Shot OVERHEAL Function, to make Medics much more Useful

[guardianreaper0]

Currently, medics are deemed quite unimportant, and often seen as a worse version of assaulters, rather than as their own unique unit.

While I made the suggestion to buff the medic boxes in Ammo Box and Medic Crate Rework, to Incentivize Good SUPPORT Play, I do think that their other unique ability, the medic’s syringes ability is quite lacking, even when the player is using perks to make it much more effective.

The primary issue with it is that even if you fully heal a soldier, they often get one tapped by bolt-action or explosion, mere seconds after being healed.

SUGGESTION:
Give the medics the ability to “overheal” friendly troops.

• Like normal, you can only heal them if they are injured or knocked down.

• If the potential amount of the heal exceeds what their normal health bar would be, it adds the additional amount as temporary HP.
  This essentially just means that these HP can’t be refilled with a medkit.

• By allowing this, medics taking perks that make their heals more effective and timely would be greatly encouraged.

• This would also increase the amount of points gained from healing allies, as its based on how much that character is healed for.

• It would be an effective way to help keep characters alive, even in dire situations.

[_i4i]

retrospectively adding them to squads, could help with, making them more useful,
ie you take a assaulter, or medic, we choose.

[Stein_Grenadier]

I’m in the “get rid of medics and just give buyable medic backpacks for riflemen” camp.

Any sort of overhaul with the medics intrinsically requires a rework of the HP/down system, as well as the fact lives are worth peanuts, which is too much work.

[_i4i]

@Stein_Grenadier

I’m in the “get rid of medics

[iso_seppo123]

No thanks. If someone would get vitality perk and the medic overheal he would be unstoppable

[guardianreaper0]

@Stein_Grenadier

I’m in the “get rid of medics and just give buyable medic backpacks for riflemen” camp

The problem with this thinking is that each type of soldier has its own unique benefits. If you add too many benefits to a single troop type, then you run into the issue of balancing and spam as a whole.

Riflemen are already quite unique, contrary to what some may think.

• They are the only ones that can carry Anti-personal grenade launcher rifles. (AT soldiers can carry the ones with AT grenades, but NOT the ones with AP grenades.)

• They are a universal troop type. Meaning that they go into any available slot, you don’t even need to choose a specific option to slot them.

If they were given medpacks as an option, you would just see them spammed even more than they already are.
So I am very much against them being medics as well.

@Stein_Grenadier

Any sort of overhaul with the medics intrinsically requires a rework of the HP/down system, as well as the fact lives are worth peanuts, which is too much work.

I’ve seen them put in a lot more work on things that have even less useful impact on the game, so I really don’t think it should be an issue.
ESPECIALLY when it has the potential to make the game a whole lot better.

[_i4i]

@iso_seppo123

If someone would get vitality perk and the medic overheal he would be unstoppable

You can not have both, as far as i am aware.

thats the thing medics give up the Vit for the heals

[ErikaKalkbrenner]

@guardianreaper0

Give the medics the ability to “overheal” friendly troops.

no.

i’m against it too.

what medics needs, are improvements, not … this.

personally, i think medic should have the following

@ErikaKalkbrenner

• allow the medic customization in other squads too
• allow medics to refill syringes through medical boxes at the expense of 1 / 2 medkit cost or a time cool down from that said boxes.
• allow medic to use more variety of rifleman weapons ( such as Kar 98s, Mosins Varients, Svts, Gewehers, Mannlinchers etc ) but NO FGs, NO AVTS, NO M2S etc.
• allow medics to revive with heavy colldowns time or at the expense of medkits
  transform the medic squad layout similar to a sniper or anti tank squad layout and include some others specializations too inside
• edit older squad of others campaign to accommodate medics
• ( optional ) add a medic selection squad specialization to bikers
• ( optional ) allow players to buy a second medic squad ( for more specialization of those who desire to do so )

( must admit, it’s a bit old. and slighlty outdated, but only just )

( edit. i’m also against them reviving people from nothing. but… that’s what the majority of people wants. )

[guardianreaper0]

@iso_seppo123

If someone would get vitality perk and the medic overheal he would be unstoppable

1. Would it really be that hard to kill them? Even with vitality perks on I see soldiers get dropped really quickly.

2. Perhaps that could be an exception then? Perhaps a maximum limit that is reached. Perhaps like 50% maximum total including vitality and overheal.

• Meaning total maximum would be 50% more HP than a standard troop, with all bonuses accounted for.

[_i4i]

Is no way i can get Vit on toon, and all the heals it needs,
so i deck it out to do its job to max, which is healing

[ErikaKalkbrenner]

@_i4i_

so i deck it out to do its job to max, which is healing

am i the only one always running out of syringes?

even with maxed perk?

like.

i finish healings first than the ammount of lives of my soldiers and teammates.

[guardianreaper0]

@ErikaKalkbrenner

allow the medic customization in other squads too

I’m all for that.

@ErikaKalkbrenner

allow medics to refill syringes through medical boxes at the expense of 1 / 2 medkit cost or a time cool down from that said boxes.

But the issue here is what I am trying to suggest a fix for, as even when you heal people, they are usually dead in a matter of seconds anyways. I’m not against being able to get more syringes from a box or whatever, but at this point I have to ask WHY?

If the medics effect isn’t really being felt, then what is the point?

@ErikaKalkbrenner

allow medic to use more variety of rifleman weapons ( such as Kar 98s, Mosins Varients, Svts, Gewehers, Mannlinchers etc ) but NO FGs, NO AVTS, NO M2S etc.

Again, I’m not opposed to this, but again I bring up the fact that unless the medics unique ability can be seen in a meaningful capacity, why would you take them and not some other unit that is already able to use these weapons?

@ErikaKalkbrenner

allow medics to revive with heavy colldowns time or at the expense of medkits

They can already revive themselves with a medkit, just like any other soldier. Or are you talking about bringing someone back from the dead? In which case I would disagree.

@ErikaKalkbrenner

transform the medic squad layout similar to a sniper or anti tank squad layout and include some others specializations too inside

I think the medic squad itself should stay pretty much as is. The ONLY exception perhaps being the addition of an engineer.
My reasoning for this is that it is a squad for the specific role of support. It should not be adapted into another assault squad.
Again, I bring up that medics should be useful enough in their role that they be played differently than as just another assault squad.

[guardianreaper0]

@ErikaKalkbrenner

am i the only one always running out of syringes?

even with maxed perk?

I would say probably yes.

The issue, which I am literally trying to point out and solve with this suggestion, is exactly what is causing that problem for you.

• You are in fact healing as many people as you can, which is great!

• HOWEVER, you can only heal them up to the limit of their health. Which in MOST cases is still such a small amount that they can be oneshot or knocked very shortly after.

• Your heals are getting capped, meaning you are not able to use the syringe to the full extent of its capabilities.

• So when you heal someone, they may be heavily wounded or lightly wounded, either way, you can only bring them up to their natural max. This means if you are healing people that are lightly wounded, you are essentially just wasting a syringe!

• If you could apply the overheal, then you would see a notable difference in your efforts, and running out at that point would then be much more understandable!

[ErikaKalkbrenner]

@guardianreaper0

But the issue here is what I am trying to suggest a fix for, as even when you heal people, they are usually dead in a matter of seconds anyways. I’m not against being able to get more syringes from a box or whatever, but at this point I have to ask WHY?

If the medics effect isn’t really being felt, then what is the point?

that’s the point.

they dont’ have to.

the job of a medic is to save resourches. throguh syringes.

aka, save teammates medkits, and allow them to replenish more medkits from the boxes if you couldn’t heal them in time as you were elsewhere or he used them to max his health.

that’s his role.

not be some sort of mage

( which, it’s why i’m also against reviving people )

nothing more, nothing less.

@guardianreaper0

Again, I’m not opposed to this, but again I bring up the fact that unless the medics unique ability can be seen in a meaningful capacity, why would you take them and not some other unit that is already able to use these weapons?

they do their role.

even AI helps to replanish hp of teammates, but only on the defender team.

( something that must be fixed too )

@guardianreaper0

They can already revive themselves with a medkit, just like any other soldier. Or are you talking about bringing someone back from the dead? In which case I would disagree.

yep.

people wants to the medic to be some sort of necromancer and revive people.

one… way or another.

i’m against it too.

but then again, i alone don’t make this game.

@guardianreaper0

I think the medic squad itself should stay pretty much as is. The ONLY exception perhaps being the addition of an engineer.

in my opinion, in order to get more medics, we should increase the number of active members in the squad ( up to 6 / 7 ) and reduce the numbers of medics down to 3.
as… doesn’t make alot sense that they are a support team yet are very limited.

at the same time, they get 5 auto weapons.

hence, tone them slighlty down, and be more of a support role through engy too.

but that’s imo.

@guardianreaper0

It should not be adapted into another assault squad.

but it already is.

that’s the point of the reworked tech tree.

tone it down.

@guardianreaper0

Again, I bring up that medics should be useful enough in their role that they be played differently than as just another assault squad.

that should be the goal.

but i don’t think it’s through black magery.

they just need some fixes, different role in the base squad, and be allowed to be used in more squads.

[ErikaKalkbrenner]

@guardianreaper0

HOWEVER, you can only heal them up to the limit of their health. Which in MOST cases is still such a small amount that they can be oneshot or knocked very shortly after.

well.

yeah. that is how it’s supposed to work.

but considering the ammont of auto people uses, medics can save you from death. ( unless headshots )

but let’s be real. only 20 % of people globally knows how to play this game.

the others are playing a different game on their own.

so i’m not too worried about that.

as … the role of the medic is to keep heal and save resourches as said for the team.

cover as much ground, and get helped by medics AI. etc.

@guardianreaper0

Your heals are getting capped, meaning you are not able to use the syringe to the full extent of its capabilities.

they do what they meant to be used i believe.

straight forward enough.

@guardianreaper0

So when you heal someone, they may be heavily wounded or lightly wounded, either way, you can only bring them up to their natural max. This means if you are healing people that are lightly wounded, you are essentially just wasting a syringe!

that is true.

hence… would be great to refill more syringes…

and, perhaps color of the UI. to recognice the damage on the soldier.

then just a blue cross on their head…

@guardianreaper0

If you could apply the overheal, then you would see a notable difference in your efforts, and running out at that point would then be much more understandable!

but that’s… too arcady.

it wouldn’t be far off from straight up reviving people.

it’s like FINKA’s ability in rainbow six siege.
( except, there, it’s even more arcady as downed people can be revived from wireless )

[guardianreaper0]

@ErikaKalkbrenner

not be some sort of mage

@ErikaKalkbrenner

but i don’t think it’s through black magery.

Lol. I’m not asking for it to be a necromancer or anything.

Its the same idea as what happens when troops in WW2 were given “forced march” cocktails and other “medications”. It numbed them out allowing them to go beyond their natural limits. Often times some of them even being able to continue fighting through wounds that would have otherwise debilitated a normal troop.

THAT is essentially all I’m asking for here. Nothing terribly over the top.

[ErikaKalkbrenner]

@guardianreaper0

Lol. I’m not asking for it to be a necromancer or anything.

Its the same idea as what happens when troops in WW2 were given “forced march” cocktails and other “medications”. It numbed them out allowing them to go beyond their natural limits. Often times some of them even being able to continue fighting through wounds that would have otherwise debilitated a normal troop.

THAT is essentially all I’m asking for here. Nothing terribly over the top.

we would enter dangerly close to a hero shooter territory though.

and set a president for even more arcady features in/for the future.

it’s what i’m hinting at.

p.s. drugs are more about improving phisical conditions and what not… opposed as somehow make your skin thicker or… survive from gun wounds.

i’d think. closest thing to what you mention, could be pain kilers. but… they just tone down the feelings of … whatever has to do with making you feeling better somehow let you forget about the pain. which… you might not feel bad in the moment, but it’s not gonna save you from the pain that will cause you death.

( dunno. i don’t do drugs. and kids out there, don’t either. they are bad for your health )

[guardianreaper0]

@ErikaKalkbrenner

as … the role of the medic is to keep heal and save resourches as said for the team.

cover as much ground,

CORRECT! So why not allow the conservation of resources that you are actively using?

Let me break it down for a moment, please hear me out:

• For the sake of easy math, let’s say the normal soldier has 10 HP.

• A medics syringe would heal for like 4 HP without any additional perks.

If the soldier in question gets down to 1 HP and needs a medic, the medic then spends 3 syringes to get them back to full health. The potential healing capability of those 3 syringes is 12 HP. Meaning only 9 HP is restored and 3 HP is just wasted.

Now imagine if overheals were a thing. That same situation would result in a fully healed soldier, plus 3 HP overheal, allowing full usage without waste, and allowing that soldier to perhaps survive a hit that would normally kill them, allowing them to get to cover and use their medkit, which they wouldn’t have survived to use otherwise!

I’m NOT saying allow them to DOUBLE their health or anything, or even give an overheal when they are already at full health, but rather just get the full effect out of each syringe, rather than being shorted just because they are at full normal health.

@ErikaKalkbrenner

i’d think. closest thing to what you mention, could be pain kilers. but… they just tone down the feelings of … whatever has to do with making you feeling better somehow let you forget about the pain. which… you might not feel bad in the moment, but it’s not gonna save you from the pain that will cause you death.

It would literally just be equal to numbing it out so that you don’t feel the hit, allowing the person to be hit more times before they are no longer able to continue.

[guardianreaper0]

@EdVanSchleck, What you think on this topic?

[ErikaKalkbrenner]

@guardianreaper0

CORRECT! So why not allow the conservation of resources that you are actively using?

well.

you still used the syringe.

even if the soldier you just healed, only was missing 1 hp ( in the scale of 10 ) that syringes cannot be used again.

( needless to say, you don’t stick the same needle to more than a person. that’s bad medical advice for you there )

but as it goes, the problem is not so much wasting the medical resourches, rather than not being able to replenish them.

i wouldn’t say he needs to have them infinite, but through other medics and what not, keep the process as long as possible.

@guardianreaper0

• For the sake of easy math, let’s say the normal soldier has 10 HP.
• A medics syringe would heal for like 4 HP without any additional perks.

If the soldier in question gets down to 1 HP and needs a medic, the medic then spends 3 syringes to get them back to full health. The potential healing capability of those 3 syringes is 12 HP. Meaning only 9 HP is restored and 3 HP is just wasted.

well, to be technical about it, medics cannot fully replenish hp of soldiers.

i guess there’s a limitation. but…

i get what you mean.

@guardianreaper0

Now imagine if overheals were a thing. That same situation would result in a fully healed soldier, plus 3 HP overheal, allowing full usage without waste, and allowing that soldier to perhaps survive a hit that would normally kill them, allowing them to get to cover and use their medkit, which they wouldn’t have survived to use otherwise!

i know.

and i’m personally against it.

especially if combined with vitality perk.

they might not survive from bolties ( that is, under 100 meters. if more, they will actually survive ) but they do against smgs and what not.

@guardianreaper0

I’m NOT saying allow them to DOUBLE their health or anything, or even give an overheal when they are already at full health, but rather just get the full effect out of each syringe, rather than being shorted just because they are at full normal health.

i understand.

i’m not a toddler who doesn’t speak english.

you … don’t have to use * or _ s

anyway.

@guardianreaper0

It would literally just be equal to numbing it out so that you don’t feel the hit, allowing the person to be hit more times before they are no longer able to continue.

well… that’s sort of unrealistic too.

what gives me, i think that people wants to overcomplicate or make even more arcade medics to be one man an entire medic field camp.

which i’m against.

but if you can convince enough people, sure.

i’m just against the sort of overboost, or being able to revive people.

( yes i did used that point in my topic too. but i specifically adressed that it’s just there because people wants it, not because it actually needs it and what not )

all to say, feels like we’re overcomplicating the medics when they are just supposed to let people survive slighlty longer.

but not to a point of being a medic dispenser with overshots.