Levels In the Renewed Enlisted Alterations Suggestion

Suggestions
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I am submitting my 1st Pass proposal of the new Equipment Table. *EDIT DRAFT 2 Have added Some missing vehicles and rearranged slightly

I really enjoy this game and have high hopes for it going forward. I really hope we can get it right.

A few things to note

  • I have tried to follow Darkflows template
  • I think 10 Tiers is pretty good. Much easier to match proper vehicles, and leaves plenty of room to match weapons now, and into the future (10 tiers doesn’t mean more grind, if its barely populated, Also Having a larger gap is better for avoiding uptiering)
  • My initial thought is Darkflow is “almost” spot on with their Vehicle order. Still need to consider more but this is initial thought.
  • Small arms need some work and just balancing out power spikes.

My Method is based on Power level, and also power based on their counterparts. Definitely not complete. I can’t comment on some items or Japan as I haven’t played them much. But I have played Allies, Germans, and Soviets extensively (2500 battles played).

I have moved them and colored the changes I believe essential.
Green = BR decreased, Red = Increased, Gold = Missing vehicle added

*Note Please read my comments at the bottom for my reasoning

Germany

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Allies

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Soviets

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Pistols
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Reasons for my changes

Pistols

Hugely under used and realistically offer no meaningful power advantage. They should all be available by tier 3

Bolt Actions

From a practical level, all Bolt Actions operate on a 1-3 BR spread “at most”. My suggestion compressed them all into the first 3 tiers.

Since damage is the same, power only differs via mag size and rate of fire (and rate of fire is minimal).

Tier 1: 5 rounds. Lower rate of fire

Tier 2: 5 rounds higher rate of fire

Tier 3: 10 rounds

SMGS

I have tried to match SMGS power level with that of their main opponents. Please note that while Germany and America have ALOT more SMG options than the Soviets, most of them are side grades and do not gain a meaningful Power rise, or even match some Soviet SMGS.

PPS-42 and PPS-43 are more powerful than most and can’t come in too early. PPD-34 is more than adequate for first few tiers.

Shotguns

Shotguns are situational and rarely used. And although they can be strong in certain situations, The reload speed essentialy curbs their kill potential. SMGSs will always be preferable. So having said that, Shotguns need to be lowered so they can have a go before all of the powerful SMGS take over.

Semi Auto Rifles

I have lowered them a little, they need their time to shine before Battle Rifles and Assault Rifles take over. They may still need to be lower.

AT Launchers

Specifically the Panzer Faust.

  • Panzerfaust 100 is arguably the best AT weapon in the game, and should only come in when the Really Heavy tanks come in. Alternative AT weapons work just fine until the Heavy tanks, So this just makes sense. If it comes out too early, its is overkill and not necessary.

  • I have moved Soviet Panzerfaust 60 based on balancing out tier 6. Tier 6 is a MASSIVE Power spike for Soviets. KV-1, T-34, panzer Faust. Their only adversary is a Panzer IV F2, which is fragile and can be easily bullied by the soviet armor and AT rifles can still Penetrate. On the flip side, Germany has no AT weapon that can penetrate the KV-1 “well”, so Panzerfaust is necessary. Panzerfaust only becomes necessary to Soviets when the Panther or possibly Panzer IV H come into play. (Soviets benefit from better Tanks earlier, it should be balanced by Germany getting better AT earlier)

Vehicles

I have split Plane lines into fighters and attackers. I have added Some missing vehicles. When considering what tier each vehicle should by I am focusing on their power level relative to their opponents as well as a progression that makes sense. Please not that while Some Tanks are more powerful, I Have tried to compensate with AT, planes.

Motor bikes

Have made them available in T1 and a lend lease one for the soviets. Motor bikes are fun, but unpopular. Should be very early game to get whatever fun can be had out of them.

Closing thoughts

I Think I have covered most of my initial thoughts for my first pass draft on the weapons table. There is so much to consider here, it will take some time.

Thanks for your time.

12 Likes
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Overall, I like this a lot better. Nice work :+1:

Only things I slightly disagree with:

I disagree slightly, I don’t think 10 is inherently bad but I think it reduces equipment variety in matches.

I agree with this, I simply disagree with some placement of rifles like the M1 Garand, Carbine and Gewehr 41 for example, since they either suck or are too late in the tree.

I know having Garands earlier might be seen as imbalance, but it is a standard issue rifle and a fan favorite. Nearly every US infantryman carried one and seeing it that late in the campaign will probably not be received well.

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One of the best table so far. Very in line with what I imagined and suggested.

Also much muuuch more fair for all factions, without questionable choices (dare I say biased?) Such as pps42 at tier 2 only, while similar mp40 was tier 6…

I would genuinely be satisfied with this, and would even… enjoy it!

Do not worry too much here: 10 might seem a lot, but there might be a lot of leeway, too. Example a tier 4 might normally face tier 3 and 5, exactly like in war thunder.

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Sure, I was toying around with how low they should go. What tier do you think Semi autos should start?

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He’s not wrong, If only because I’ve read maaaany ppl complaining they were too high, and they’d need to grind bolties first.

While I prefer bolties myself and don’t see much issue… We must take everyone’s needs into consideration. Maybe reduce every semis in your table, by 1 tier and it should be golden :thinking:

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Sure, I think that’s reasonable. Any question as to the order? Garand is clearly better than the g41 (but I like the G41) and I let it come in at the same time because its so Iconic. Perhaps America should lead in this instance. Also I think the Johnson is far worse than the garand…I just didnt know what to do with it.

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Just depends on the semi auto and the way it handles. M1 Carbine is fine at 4 since it’s pretty weak, M1 Garand at 5 (but ONLY for US troops) and Gewehr 41 at level 5-6. Soviet/Japanese, as well as other late semi autos can stay higher since they were less common and have detachable magazines.

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It’s possible that this maybe 1 tier too low (the Garand is very powerful) But as America vs Germany, When I look at it side by side, I think it’s “okay.”

The problem arises (IMO) when Germany vs Soviets. Germany gets 2 Semi-autos before the Soviets get 1. Granted the Soviets is better. Maybe Developers need to add a Stripper clip reload Semi Auto version for Soviets to match power.

I havent added it to my suggestion. Just discussing for now

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That’s fair, just kinda my thoughts on it. I just think the Garand in particular should be lower because it’s a standard infantry weapon. To me personally, it’s like putting the Lee Enfield or Kar98k at level 7.

But overall, it’s a hundred times better than the first draft the devs came up with.

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I say we meet in the middle? Just bump every Semi Auto in my list down by 1 tier? as @Conscript_Joe suggested

M1 carbine (I dont rate it, does anyone?) can be exception as Germans get VG1-5 very early…possibly too early?

*edit i forgot VG1-5 was assault only

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Sure, that idea works too :+1:

And yeah I never understood why the VG is assault, it’s a cheap semi auto rifle…

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probably because its called “Volkssturm Gewehr” and people think -sturm Gewehr means assault rifle.

while indeed STG stands for “Sturmgewehr” = Assault rifle
VG stands for Volkssturm Gewehr = Rifle of the Assault Folks

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That’s what makes it tricky, it can be translated either way, and both ways are technically correct.

As you said it can be translated as Volksturm-gewehr (Volksturm Rifle) or Volks-sturmgewehr (People’s Assault Rifle). I believe the former is the correct one since it is a light rifle for use by the Volksturm, but either way it is grammatically correct.

It’s actually translated to People’s Storm. Which is of course a propaganda term since the Volksturm was comprised of poorly trained civilians and were far from a “storm”.

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I think the tanks are biggest issue considering soviet vs germuts

Unless the T-50 gets its stalinium forged armor nerfed alot the pz3J isnt exactly a match against it.
Which has been seen already.

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Very nice good idea but have you consider about the Fedorov? I think the fedorov behind a ppd 40 is really buff, the Fedorov is really good and that is why its on the last levels of most campaigns… idk

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I’ve heard as much and that sounds right. I just didn’t touch it cos I haven’t used it enough to gauge its power personally. It probably does need to move up.

There’s a few weapons and vehicles others will be better suited to ranking, Especially Japan (I have barely touched Japan)

As I said first draft, open to improvement.

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Oh i see, yes if they keep the Fedorov there… it will be Russian Bias 100%…

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The issue with the Fedorov is that they made it perform in game pretty much like an AVT40 with larger mag. It’s arguably on par with FG42-2, if not better.

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Ok If that’s the Case it needs to go up. Because AVT-40 ranked almost best weapon in game for me…

Perhaps swap with PPSH-41

I have Updated Weapons table as per discussion here. Semi Autos as per @AdRock2621 and Federov as per @42940868 and @Serpiko82

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Good Point, Perhaps T-50 Needs to trade with T-28E ? makes the most sense for progression. Sort of takes a backwards step how the Developers have it.