When I’m attacking, I’m sick to death of half of my team sitting in spawn doing absolutely nothing (aka “sNiPiNg”)
When I’m defending, I’m sick to death of the match basically timing out because half the “attacking” team is 100 to 200m deep into the grayzone not moving
Just kick them, if they literally are not going to play the game, leave the grayzone or ever do anything objective wise. They just find a hill/building/tower that is furthest back possible and sit there annoying everyone.
Often you end up with like 2-3 people actually ever really getting any capture score and dying 15-20-25 times trying make up for for several 2-3 respawn deadweights that are unironically griefing the damn game.
It sucks for both sides. The matches are boring as hell. They take absolutely forever. It’s just frustrating and annoying.
While I get your point, and agree in some degree with you, I would like to point out that some snipers are actually quite effective to have on your team.
I’m much more inclined to put in something along these lines.
Specifically that players that are using a single squad like that would need to hit some kind of point milestones to be considered efficient.
Perhaps if they are as completely inefficient as you are saying, the game gives them a prompt that they need to move in and assist the team, followed by a warning, and so on.
Effectively, if players are sitting back and not actually doing anything to support the team, then I agree they need to be penalized in some way. However, it needs to be quantifiable. If they are not generating enough points, its a good indicator for the most part.
The exception to this however are players that are actively working as spotters. Which is where a suggestion such as
would help to make their efforts quantifiable.
I will say that when I play with my buddy that uses a sniper, he’s also actively marking locations of tanks, rallies, weapon nests, and even just large waves of enemies. It makes us far more efficient as a team, but unfortunately his score suffers because he is focused on accurate marks.
If they are setting up in preparation for the next objective, they are still technically accumulating score and helping their team. At that point, that is up to them.
(If you are on defense and ever use another players fortifications to your advantage, don’t even start.)
If we are repeatedly failing the objective because there is no one physically there to do it (cap/plant/stop the defuse/whatever) then I personally do not care what kind of “useful” (let’s be honest, literally anyone can spot things, we do not need to waste player slots for someone to play point and click adventures)
But I specifically meant EGREGIOUS cases.
1 kill per minute, not even 0.1 capture points, like, less than 33% respawns of people who are actually trying, never moves anywhere, often literally dies to the gray zone after someone manages to cap the point for them and it advances, things like that
So many matches you literally need like ONE guy to just walk down and help you cap
And then you open the map and its just clumps of campers all the way back each in their personal spot
with 600 score after 20 minutes
Defenders in multiple game modes already don’t technically get “capture points”.
I would say it really depends on what they are doing. If they are sitting back “sniping” but cannot hit those marks, then yes I agree its an issue. HOWEVER, if they are spending time fortifying the next objective, I would argue that they are being helpful to the team. It may not be in that exact moment, but there have been TONS of games where I fall back, spend some time setting up a future objective, don’t have much score for the first third of the game, but when it reaches the fortified point, my team then has a viable spot to defend from and I go from bottom of the board to top of the board.
Point being, its important to note what role they are attempting to play.
LOW deaths is NOT a good indicator of someone that is not helping their team. Both me and many of the people I play with have 10 squad deaths or less, (my sniper friend almost always has 0 deaths but 60-90 kills).
My averages are about 70-95 kills a game with about 5 squad deaths and 1-2 captures. Granted, I prefer to play more of support type roles. HOWEVER, due to my efforts, fellow teammates often die LESS.
I think there needs to be more communication options to help better convey the message. Simply “attack” doesn’t work. Something like “we need more on point” would.
There is also other moments that you aren’t accounting for that I’ve seen and experienced many times:
a rally point in a location that the AI can’t escape from. Whether intentional or accidental, this still happens frequently.
In fact I ran into one just the other day where the guy had placed the rally behind a door, and when the door was swung in toward it, it glitched everyone to be stuck behind it.
It took me a few minutes to figure out how to resolve the issue and in that time there was only one player really getting any rally point spawns on the board, so I messaged him to find out if it was in fact him and if it was intentional. His response:
“Rofl yes it was intentional. Made everyone stuck so its easier for me to get kills. Who cares about win?”
My point is, there are still lots of instances like this, which is where I’ve suggested an option to “vote to break” rallies. AI will automatically cycle through rally points, even if they are in bad spots, often leading an entire squad(s) to get stuck.
I think the best way to quantify it honestly is a penalty at the end of the game. As you can never really tell how useful what they are doing in that moment may be. However, if at the end of the game they have basically no score to speak of, then a penalty of some kind needs to occur.
yes they are quite effective… as defenders they watch attackers capture the point and as attacker they are killing infinite number of defenders. they are quite effective at losing the game…
it is absolutely fair. instead of being kill whore with sniper, they should actually defend/attack the objective… you know the one thing that can win you the match?
when you build rally point you can basically forget about it and go actually defend the cap. those planted mines will do absolutely no good when they will be planting them in gray zone. also sniper squads dont have AA or AT.
This specific sentence is a point where I agree with you!
I think it’s situational (map dependent) and likely outside the stuff the OP is speaking of. On Maisky Forest (I think it’s called), as a defender I sometimes ignore the first point and go build a rally, ammo and some defense for the second point. The first point seems to get capped quickly, almost always, so it seems like a fool’s errand to try. If you get the next point set with 2 mins worth of engineering work it’s VERY tough to get past. If you were fighting in vain for the first point then the odds of success on the second seem lower.
All of that said, there are way too many players who literally don’t push. Fortress Invasion on Defense I’ve considered making an auto-quit. It feels like 8/10 times you’re just going to be waiting for the timer to run out. The only way to get points is to push out towards the spawns and harvest the innocent who aren’t even really making an effort to push the point. It’s not fun.
Now see, this is where a mass disconnect between what we are seeing. I’m guessing you play on PC right?
For console (only) games its the exact OPPOSITE.
For us, Defenders in 90% of games get their teeth kicked in because players are rushing in from every side, and constantly spamming artillery.
The other 10% is split between games of only bots or where the only real players are sitting back with a tank/ aircraft.
Its why I always push so hard for buffs to engineers and such. Unfortunately, it appears that gameplay is VASTLY different between PC and console lobbies.
I trash player, i have 200 ping, play 5 man squads, 10 deaths is 50 tickets, but i am also a engineer main, and if i sit back nothing happens, yes we could all sit around and not die at all.
I have played games recently, where even i , can not get out of spawn, if more than 10 deaths is trash so be it,
i am trash, also happen to like lvling my squads, so if i use more then 10, makes me trash fine, go sit in your tank plane, w/e
And let people whom are willing to try and take a point do so.
May want to change this, totally not true
don’t wish to go finding games/proof that go for more than 1/2 hour, your chance of using 10 squads is easy, so if some had 15 deaths, but has 100-150 kills, is complete trash, come on. silly just change it
I never said you bad,
some one said that you die more than 10 times, makes one trash, i disagree
Every game is diff, unless you play just 1-2 things, tank/plane, you can get a judgement, of what you expect of ones self.
But as a stupid person, who thinks getting a rally down, is just as important, and well, one just happens to run into enemy’s, when trying to play, to get that rally down.
But ofc now there’s a truck, so i guess i could always just start, not planting rally, and not to die at all, and sit back ,like others
Low respawns has been like 90% accurate prediction of being utterly useless in the game as it currently is.
As infantry, there is basically nothing of use you can do from far away in the game. Meanwhile, without people respawning and attacking most rally points will just get counterpushed and die
Ironically thats highly likely to happen thanks to campers, who will happily build rally points in weird camper places, getting half of the damn team stuck
I’ve had several games where the deadweights get yelled at and either actually come to the cap and we immediately break through and they just start playing and we win, or they ragequit and get replaced with bots…and we immediately start winning, because bots actually play the game
Snipers, AT Field guns, mortars (especially 80mm), even MG and HMG nests I’ve seen be effective at 100-150m.
Just because you haven’t been effective with it yourself, or perhaps noticed someone that has been proficient with them, doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
They may be rather rare, but I honestly think those that wish to play support roles should be able to, but they may need some practice or better direction to become good with it. Sadly, there aren’t many good content creators for this game as I have yet to see a good “tips” video for it yet… Perhaps I should make one.
meanwhile in reality:
1v19 fought my way to left side bomb, planted it single handedly, defended it till it was REALLY ringing, eventually died to a horde of russians
go to respawn screen
not a single person is en route to either of the cap zones
half of the team is stuck on the right side, because some camper dipshit “sniper” built a rally point then sandbagged off every window and door and the bots get stuck
I had to spend time deconstrucing this nonsense until he ran out of build mats and was unable to grief as much anymore
managed to build SEVERAL rally points inside of the walls of the monastery, with most of them dying without barely any respawns on them
this is simply making the game unplayable
I do not care how many meaningless kills you get with your “useful” “contributions” THE DEFENDERS HAVE INFINITE TICKETS
