Important changes after the second test

[Greyparrots]

Maybe because of map design or how dark flow sets up the objectives but we don’t have this problem in the big action mode.

[Dare_Fish]

According to some players, walking for thirty seconds without firing your gun is MilSim territory, and these are the players who are usually the loudest, and thus often get their way.

I certainly hope that DF implements better maps/modes in the future, but I don’t expect anything to great anytime soon, considering what’s going on in development right now.

The BR system might be “looser” than war thunders, but it’s just going to compound the meta issue.

The snake has its fangs firmly entrenched in its tail.

[CaptainSebekel]

@ZebulonBVance

like Reddit and Facebook

Oh my god. Enlisted Facebook. Ive seen youtube videos with less than 100k clicks that have more likes than their entire Facebook account. And just 2,6k followers/ people talking about it doesnt sound like a big majority.
And Preddit at its peak.

[CaptainSebekel]

@Greyparrots

helps

Most of the people there are bots though.

[Greyparrots]

And if we want the misery of pain and sweat Lords to stop let’s make the matches not so quick to end we’re not trying to compete with rainbow 6 siege or cod here We want a battle not to end in 10 or 15 minutes we want good 20 minutes to 30 minute battles.

[Bigote0070]

friendly memory, do not derail the topic, we are not in a ring

[gastanofrizzi]

Another friendly reminder to stop derail the news topic

[Eila_Illu]

that is an L take. In moscow until the T50, T34 and KV1 were added all but the starter tanks (t-60 and pz2) could pen each other frontally in fact the 45mm can still pen all german tanks in Moscow frontally (i’ve literally 1 shoot multiple PZ3J , PZ4F1, E and F2 last week in my BA-11.

If anything the BP Pz3 with the 50mm is better in every way since more crew, more armor, more pen and better HE shell.

[Eila_Illu]

Yeh low tier tanks were a mess on dev server M8 is top of the tree in Pacific and yet was T1 on dev it can literally destroy every single Japanese tank frontally at every range meanwhile japan had 3-4 tanks in tier 1 and then like 1 tank per tier for the rest most aren’t even that good to begin with.

Same issue in german TT on dev Pz4F1 was a low rank tank and yet is a high tier unlock in moscow not to mention Pz 4 F2 being quite high tier just because it has a semi decent gun.

[Myrm1don]

@tommyZZM

I’ve always thought that the real problem with games isn’t the variety of weapons, but the out of control spawning number of them.

My opinion also. Enlisted is uniquie in that since you have a squad. It wouldnt matter if most of them have to have rifles, you would still get your choice of weapon for a couple of them that you would use.

Other games would bore people if they had to use mostly rifles each spawn., But enlisted “could” circumvent that

[Man_bear_pig]

@Conte_Baracca

but it is unfair to literally everyone who didn’t buy Stalingrad

If you think the StG-44 is better than the FG-42 II. The Soviets are the only ones getting a tangible advantage out of it moving up from the AVT-40 to the AS-44.

[xaos]

@tommyZZM

In my opinion, BR simply does not bring any valuable effect to the game.

From all my deductions, BR does not make the game more fun. Although some players claim that through BR they will be better able to play with low-level weapons instead of participating in sweat battles, I tell you, this is false, you are still forced to participate in sweat battles and will be in boring farm battles. High-level BR is in my opinion It seems like it will be even more boring.

Yep. Overall, the game wil become more boring, stale & “sweaty”.

@tommyZZM

Regardless of whether weapons are divided into more or less levels, there will be corresponding problems.

Spliting players by weapons is terrible, and the vehicles and weapons in the game aren’t all that different most of the time.

If divided into few BRs it will have little impact on the vanilla game, it just be some kind of placebo

If divided into many BRs it will further divide the players and most likely break the game at the top of the pyramid, since the advanced players will be in the game in smaller numbers, they will play more frequently Meet each other. Since their rules are based on a certain weapon, rather than all weapons, this will force players to lose any combination possibilities. I wonder if every player likes this kind of lord of sweat competition? Or what?

Top tier will guarantee be StG44 & Thompson with 50round spam, and the epitomy of sweatlord meta.
Lower tiers, will also end up with the abuse of spam tactics of the best weapons os said tier.
It all depends on how many BR brackets will be created, and there will be NO smooth transition between them

@tommyZZM

I’ve always thought that the real problem with games isn’t the variety of weapons, but the out of control spawning number of them.

SPAM isn’t fun or realistic for the matter.
But the BR system darkflow has here will promote the spam of meta lineups in the detriment of equipment variety and historical accuracy.

@tommyZZM

You can’t remove a player from a low-level fight in Moscow just because he uses mg34. In real history, mg34 and 98k work together, automatic weapons with bolt rifles, not fully automatic weapons or fully bolt rifles.

You need to regulate the ratio between the two weapon systems. That’s how you can balance the game, while avoiding mirror meta.

@tommyZZM

There is nothing BR can do to deal with either the combination of weapons or the historical nature of the vehicles. In historical Moscow, T-34 and KV1 participated in the battle, and his opponent was indeed the No. 3 tank. If you complained about Tiger in the snow map, it’s just the same thing. They might take the KV-2 to high-BR Berlin, which would be hilarious and hilarious.

If there is some kind of BR mechanism that calculates the average score or weapon combination based on the number of weapons, it may be able to solve this problem well. But I don’t know if they will implement it, it will still be unwieldy for the vehicle situations. For vehicles cases, the best solution is always still personalSpawnCost

I had the same idea about a month back. It evolved into a template for a hevily weighted average BR calculation mechanism. It goes into more detail on full lineup balance, but the same principles can be applied within squads just as well. You can have a look at it in my thread below:

@xaos

You can keep balance without looking just at the best weapon a player has equpped…
Allow rare weapons to be rare weapons, instead of forcing their spam at top tier…
Take into account the whole loadout of a player and fix the map & skill-diff issues that plaque this game.

What about considering sonething like this:

Suggestions for upcoming battle rating matchmaking to keep variety in the game & rant about Enlisted's problems

My latest revision of the general, variety oriented (without screwing everyone but the top tier spam) BR matchmaking system: Restrict the use of theese Higher BR that the battle’s average by a point system that’s needed to spawn again your good squads, restricting you into playing your “bad” (or at worst “cannon fodder”) squads to get the points to respawn again the better ones. (outright dont allow them to just cycle their best 3 squads) Score system similar to @VoyoMayPL 's idea. Punish…

@xaos

You can have balance without deleting historical accuracy. Just give each weapon realistic map preferences, and my suggested BR system will take care of the ‘quantity’ problem for balance AND some historical accuracy.
For example, Fedorov spam is both insanity (to fight against) and unrealistic. Plus, it is a WW1 era weapon that was produced in such low amount that even in moscow you should be rarely seeing them… My system does that, because it encourages players to carry a few of them alongside lower tier weapons, keeping variety, balance and (to a degree) historical accuracy (Spam is reserved for top tier, but those weapons can be used in lower tier matches).

[xaos]

@CaptainSebekel

@tommyZZM

High-level BR is in my opinion It seems like it will be even more boring.

Nothing is as boring as current Enlisted.

Smacking Mkb players with my Mosin then pushing to get their guns is the opposite of boring.

@CaptainSebekel

But still, its basically WT with guns.

Balancing infantry weapons like vehicles is fundamentally flawed. Unlike (only) vehicle combat, infantry don’t get immune to lower tier weapons then the one they carry. All of them have distinct roles and can still kill just fine, you just need to outskill your enemy enough to get the first shot off…

@CaptainSebekel

@tommyZZM

combination possibilities.

Can we stop pretending that most players care about gun diversity?
We saw what people used in test servers and it was spam of FG42s, AVTs and StGs.
If people would go with combination, the game wouldnt be in its current state where everyone just spams high-end stuff of each campaign on the one side that has the better stuff.

Since when the people that go into the test servers are representing the entire playerbase???
As for high tier spam, currently i only see a few spammers per match, and with the exeption of CAS and the Thompsom paratroopers, thay only cause problems when they are totaly unopposed.
The game needs to start insentivising the use of various weapons together (and requlate the amount of high tier ones) and not go for spammy BR brackets.

@CaptainSebekel

@tommyZZM

You can’t remove a player from a low-level fight in Moscow just because he uses mg34.

Except you apparently can.

You can, but should you???

@CaptainSebekel

@tommyZZM

In real history

In real history, the F2 wasnt in Moscow, so the Mkb and the ZH and the T-50 would be a premium since only one was on like one recon mission for a week or so.

We are not asking for total historical accuracy, we never had that in the first place.
We want a semi-historical battlefield that doesnt spam the ‘best’ weapon in existance at that time.

@CaptainSebekel

@tommyZZM

use BR very early,

Which is why they came up with the last br map hybrid…

Which, if you fix the glaring inconsistencies of the 2nd test server, can become better than the currently proposed BR system.

[CaptainSebekel]

@xaos

opposite of boring.

Oh no. Not another Buritto.

@xaos

flawed

Bolt action rifleman squad does not equal engineer squads armed with FG42.
MP28 doesnt equal PPSh.

@xaos

entire playerbase

Because game is same shit show but with couple of noobs and newbies and Burritos who need to tell me that a bolt action rifle equals a automatic rifle.

@xaos

spammy

This game is spam.
People have all the choices and they choose the FG42 and the Jumbo.

@xaos

You can, but should you???

Yes.

@xaos

semi-historical battlefield that

Ive heard so many definitions of that I dont even care.

[xaos]

@Dare_Fish

Yes, equipment diversity, a slight leaning towards historical authenticity, and a heavy focus on skill based queues, are what I believe would have made for a great merge.

Unfortunately many are only laser focused on equipment/vehicle balance, it is going to ruin the feel of this unique game. Let war thunder be war thunder, and enlisted be enlisted.

If i can accumilate 70+ kills with a Mosin against mostly Mkb players, then we need skill based queues.
Remember, the main complain of the BR advocates is the assault rifle spam by “sweatlords”.

[xaos]

@CaptainSebekel

@xaos

opposite of boring.

Oh no. Not another Buritto.

Is that supposed to be an insult???
Instead of challenging the opinion you throw insults? Classic.

@CaptainSebekel

@xaos

flawed

Bolt action rifleman squad does not equal engineer squads armed with FG42.
MP28 doesnt equal PPSh.

@xaos

Balancing infantry weapons like vehicles is fundamentally flawed. Unlike (only) vehicle combat, infantry don’t get immune to lower tier weapons then the one they carry. All of them have distinct roles and can still kill just fine, you just need to outskill your enemy enough to get the first shot off…

I never said MP28 equal PPSh or anything similar. I said that unlike tanks (like Stuart vs Tiger), you can kill any infantryman using any infantry weapon.

@CaptainSebekel

@xaos

spammy

This game is spam.
People have all the choices and they choose the FG42 and the Jumbo.

And you advocate for more spam…

[CaptainSebekel]

@xaos

Classic

There is always some moron who needs to tell that he kicks with bolt actions and he is too good for fancy high end weapons.
But no one and at least I dont cares and it is not important for the overall balance. because 0,01% of the playerbase told me that sending MP28 against PPSh is fine because you can pen the PPSh user.

@xaos

you can kill any infantryman using any infantry weapon.

That still justifies sending MP28s against PPSh because at the end you can still kill someone.
And reality showed us that people dont want to use MP28s against PPSh.

@xaos

And you advocate for more spam…

Because then FG42 and AVT and Tiger spamers can love each other only for the most part in their own arena and I can have my fun with non high end stuff in lower br again.
Because reality is, people will spam as long as they can without limit. Devs dont want limits and a chunck of the playerbase doesnt want limits. So here we go with BR.

[Eila_Illu]

Enlisted is not a competitive esports game and even those are not 1:1 balance.
Enlisted had Asymmetric balance of equipment weapons and vehicles.

If anything what make the game the worst is sweat behavior of arty spammers, suicide bombing pilots, rifle grenade spammers heck flamethrowers for example are one of those either completely useless or wipes the entire point of enemies.

[Eila_Illu]

@CaptainSebekel

Because then FG42 and AVT and Tiger spamers can love each other only for the most part in their own arena and I can have my fun with non high end stuff in lower br again.

We have this now will go away with merge don’t like high end equipment spam? play Pacific, Tunisia, Moscow you want high end equipment spam play Normandy, Berlin want worst maps in the game play Stalingrad xD

[Ghost_of_Zeon]

and gray zoning tanks case sacred of at grenades and hand held