How to balance tanks (T34) - Tank commander and Radio operator, some thoughts about further balance

Suggestions
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Greetings to everyone, as I promised in another thread, I am giving my thoughts on some tank OP problematic in Moscow campaign. I must admit I am mostly thinking about Moscow as we lack some iconic tanks like T34 that many of players expressed should be added. I am also for it, but for balance sake, in current setup it will run over every tank Germans have.

This topic is open for discussion but be mindful, I did spend time and effort writing this. I am also always looking at how things could be, example, I expect Arty spam to be nerfed and fixed in the future, so one suggestion will be for future when this spam is fixed. This is beta, nothing is written in stone and can be fixed and changed!

I will focus on T34 vs German competition as I think KV-1 will, even with these limitations be OP.

As stated before, T34 in current setup will run over everything Germans have but if developers add few realistic things to buff German tanks, it maybe could be manageable, so lets start.

  1. Tank commander
    Players controlling tanks should be able to operate the tank while looking trough commanders cupola, same thing that we have if you switch to commander and pop out of hatch.

Thing we currently have:

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image1920Ă—1080 2.22 MB

Something we could have:

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image1920Ă—1080 1.42 MB

Also, looking left and right should not force the player to “Look the other way” as person can easily look left and right to see what is happening on left and right side of the commanders cupola. Pressing C will not turn the turret but work the same way as we have in airplanes.

How would this benefit “worse” German tanks with commanders and limit Soviet tanks = tactical awareness. You cold spot targets easier while Soviet tank is forced to look trough gunners optics or pop out to see what is happening and be shout with single rifle bullet.
Also, some delay can be implemented so turning turret and shooting from commanders view simulates commander giving orders to gunner. Example, if you press shoot main gun from commanders view, gunner will shoot in 0,5 seconds to simulate you not controlling the gunner himself. Some perks can be added to lower the delay. Just thinking out loud.

  1. Radio operator - if tank has no radio, there should be no markers on the map for your team to help you with identifying potential threats. I think this would not be so hard to implement.

Also, why not give tanks with radio operator ability to order Arty strikes. I KNOW that Arty strikes are now hot topic as players are able to spam them too often, but when this gets addressed, why not?

As T34 has no radio at this time, this is another balancing factor for it.

  1. Loader (This one is not exactly for T34, but for T60) - not one single tank should be able to reload a gun and shoot at same time if no loader is present. As of now, T60 can reload MG while shooting the main gun. What, gunner is octopus and can do it all by himself?

  2. Gun ammo
    This one I did not research properly, did not have time, so I am open for suggestions and corrections. BUT if someone with more knowledge can provide sources when did the Germans receive HEAT ammo for short 75mm Panzer 4 and Panzergranate 40/41 for 50mm Panzer 3. Also, how many shells per tank.

That is it, let the rant begin :slight_smile:

Also, another thing I forgot before I hit post.

I fear that in later part of campaign, only tanks that we will see are latest ones in Campaign, in this current setup that are PZ 3E, PZ 4E, BT7 and T28.

Why would anyone, except for few enthusiasts like myself, improve their PZ2 if he will not use if further in campaign. So my suggestion is to limit each tank you own to one per game, except the lowest tanks, so we don’t limit new players to one tank par game.

So in other words, if you are able to spawn in multiple tanks in one game, you spawn in PZ3E, you die, next you have to spawn in what is left and those are PZ3B or PZ2, ect. ect. If you loose all tanks, you can spawn in PZ2 as long as you wish.

6 Likes
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i like the idea especially the commander one

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That one could be easily implemented as we already have the same when commander opens the hatch.

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I think Spawn Points would be a possible solution to the problem you posed of tanks becoming obsolete. Rather than blocking them outright after dying, have a certain amount of points you need to get as infantry before getting to spawn it again, or use a lower level tank. That would make spamming tougher tanks harder and possibly more skill based, once things like the mortarman are balanced

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this one is easy - the Germans had HEAT ammo for the short 75 from 1940 and first used it in combat in Nth Africa in early 1941.

this was the relatively inefficient Gr.38 Hl - the subsequent improved models and service entry for htem were

Gr. 38 Hl/A:
Probably introduced in late 1941.

Gr. 38Hl/B:
This version is mentioned in reports dated March 1943, so it must have been in use by then.

Gr. 38 Hl/C:
Does not appear to have been in service in January 1944 but is mentioned in manuals etc. from the summer of 1944, so probably introduced in the spring of 1944.

(all from German 75mm HEAT rounds "Gr 38 HL" for 7,5cm KwK 3 - Axis History Forum)

I believe ther are detailed figures for ammo production somewhere that show when PzGr 40 was produced for various guns, but I haven’t been able to find more than references to them.

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My idea to force players to play different tanks was to make slots. Each tank occupies a certain number of slots, depending on its size/production cost/whatever. Light tanks take 1, medium 2, heavy 3. Each team would have 4 slots, meaning two mediums could take on a single heavy. If you wanna play a tank and someone takes a heavy, you are forced to take for example the pz II as a infantry support.
Other then that would love to have C button like in a plane as commander in a tank and would love to be able to look around in the copula without having to use the mouse wheel (god why is it like this).
The lack of radio operator debuff is a great idea (the one with not seeing marks, someone mentioned the artillery one already).
Great post op

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Do you intend to kill the T-26?

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Also a possible solution, +1

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Thank you! This could work, have tanks carry some percentage of these shells and it will bring balance to higher level.

Also, the same thing for PzGr 40. Only few if unupgraded, +5 if you upgrade the tank to certain level. Thinking out loud.

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Also a good idea, +1.

Yeah, cupola could really be great gamechanger for thanks that had dedicated commander.

I just really hope the devs notice this, community buffs the topic and so on. Many more rant topics get more attention then topics where someone really elaborated on what and how.

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11

Sorry, I don’t understand what are you trying to say here?

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T34 is not necesary in Moscow campaign.But a rework of German tanks is.Panzer III B should not be there,even Panzer III E is old by that point.The progersion should move Panzer II F (we currently have C), Panzer III E, Panzer III F.

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I agree, great post, would love to see T-34 on Moscow like it was in History

2 Likes