Historical BR Overhaul

Suggestions
1

This is just one or various ideas I’ve had for a more historical overhaul of the game

The current BR system does a “meh ok” job at maintaining historical immersion. Most late war things are high tier, early war low tier. It’s generally passable. However there are plenty of things all over the place. Volkssturm weapons in low tier so you see it in Moscow 1941, AVS in high tier in Berlin 1945, Panzerfausts in Moscow and Stalingrad, etc.

I have never asked for 200% historical accuracy. Yeah Germany didn’t have tanks and planes defending the beachheads, or who won which battle, or this or that prototype gun, but no one cares about that. I don’t. It’s a game, we all accept that. I don’t mind prototypes. However everyone draws their line different.

What I want or envision is extremely simple, the year it was made is the year it appears. Of coarse we can go into the nitty gritty details of this date or that date, but my compromise is simple. Let me put it this way, 75% immersion is better than 45% immersion. And let me say that these BR suggestions aren’t all set in stone, I’m willing to be flexible. For example, the Jumbo didn’t see service until late 1944 but I wouldn’t fuss if it appears in Normandy June 1944 because hey at least it’s still 1944. It doesn’t have to be perfect.

BR 1- before up to 1941
BR 2- 1942
BR 3- 1943
BR 4- 1944
BR 5- 1945

Campaigns/maps are divided by BR year. Even this can be debated and flexible. For example, the Battle of the Bulge took place in late 1944-early 1945 so it could cover both. Some battles like Moscow ran from late 1941 to literally 1 week of 1942, so for that Moscow could just be considered basically mostly a 1941 battle. Or Tunisia was late 1942 and took place mostly in 1943.

If your whole set up is BR 1 you can theoretically end up in any BR map, while if you have BR 5 you can only be in BR 5 map. The BR system would work pretty much the same as now. If you have an entirely BR 1 loadout but give yourself a single BR 4 item you are BR 4, welcome to 1944.

  • Moscow- BR 1
  • Stalingrad, Guadalcanal, Gavutu- BR 1,2
  • Tunisia, New Georgia- BR 1,2,3
  • Normandy, Hurtgen Forest- BR 1,2,3,4
  • Berlin- BR 1,2,3,4,5

Again this is just the general concept. There are certainly ways it can be tweaked and evolve.

Just to address some concerns:
“The enemy has X vehicle!”

  1. There are many many many vehicles that can be added to the game that fill various roles and can counter opposing vehicles
  2. I and others have suggested flak cannon Engineer constructs as dual heavy AA/AT guns and luckily every faction’s was in service since the beginning of the war. The ultimate weapon against any armor. They would be balanced by costing all of your Engineer points and their crew would be completely exposed
  3. There are multiple ways of combatting tanks even if one fails (your tanks, AT weapons, mines, AT guns, planes)
  4. You are not going to be fighting the same enemy composition every single time. Even in the current BR system you still encounter a variety of vehicles

The enemy has X weapon!

  1. There are still many weapons and gadgets that can be added to the game that fill various niches and counter the opposing
  2. You are not going to be facing the same enemy composition every single time. Just like now, you will see a wide variety of weapons
  3. This game has a high TTK, you are killed just as easily as your enemy
  4. Battles and combat are dynamic

Why is X on Y BR?

  1. There is room for debate and discussion for why (historically) something to be put in one BR or the other. For example, the Japanese Ho-Ni I started production in 1942 but first saw combat in the Philippines in 1945, so there could be an argument for it being BR 2 instead of 5.

Matchmaking

  1. Matchmaking is always a gamble, just like now.
  2. Keep in mind that it’s not like every single player who has BR 1 gear is going to be crammed into a BR 5 match. The matchmaker has to fill many lobbies.

But new players!

  1. If the issue of how new players adapt to the game is an issue the simplest solution has always been just have a separate layer of matchmaking based on rank, level, whatever and new players will be in their own lobby

The new BRs would be as follows. (Remember there is room for debate and considerations) this is just an initial draft.

I’m not going to go through Premiums, Events, Gold Orders, etc but if you want to know where something is just look up when it was produced, finished, saw service, etc and there’s the answer for you

US+UK

Spoiler

m1903 Springfield- 1
Springfield 1903a1 USMC- 1
Springfield m1903a1 sniper- 2
Enfield p14- 1
Springfield 1903a3 sniper- 4
m1917 Springfield- 1
Ross rifle mk 3- 1
M1 Carbine- 2
M1 Carbine grenade launcher- 4
m1903 Grenade Launcher- 2
Springfield m1903a4 sniper- 4
SMLE Mk 3- 1
SMLE Mk 3 grenade launcher- 1
Lee-Enfield No 4 Mk 1- 1
Lee-Enfield No 4 Mk 1 T sniper- 2
M1 Garand- 2
M1 Garand sniper- 3
Johnson m1941- 2
M1 Garand Grenade Launcher- 3
M2 Carbine- 5
M1c Garand Sniper- 4

M50 Reising- 1
Sten Mk 2- 1
M3 Grease Gun- 3
M3a1 Grease Gun- 4
Winchester Model 1912- 1
Owen Mk 1- 2
Browning Auto 5- 1
Lanchester- 1
M1a1 Thompson- 3
M1928a1 Thompson- 1
M1 Thompson- 3
Thompson m21/28 Box Mag- 1
M928a1 Thompson Drum Mag- 1

Vickers Berthier- 1
Bren Mk 1- 1
Bren Mk 2- 1
BAR m1918- 1
BAR m1918a1- 1
BAR m1918a2- 2
m1941 Johnson LMG- 2
Browning 1919a6- 3

Boys AT Rifle- 1
Two Inch Mortar- 1
M1 Bazooka- 2
PIAT- 3
WLA Bike- 2
Studebaker 6 u1- 1
M1a1 Flamethrower- 3
M1 Flamethrower- 2
M9 Bazooka- 3
M2 Flamethrower- 3
M2 Mortar- 1

M13 MGMC- 4
M2a4- 2
A13 Mk 2- 1
M3 Stuart- 1
M3 Stuart Flamethrower- 3
Daimler Mk 2- 2
M8 Scott- 3
M5a1- 3
Mk 1 Grant- 2
M3 Lee- 2
Crusader- 2
Sherman 2- 2
M4a1 Sherman- 2
M4a2 Sherman- 2
M4a3 105 Sherman- 4
M10 GMC- 3
M4a3e2 Jumbo- 4
M4a1 76 w- 4
M18 GMC- 4
M4a2 76 w- 4
M26 Pershing- 5

SOC 1 Seagull- 3
Hurricane Mk 2b Trop- 1
F2a3 Buffalo- 2
SBD 3 Dauntless b23- 1
Spitfire Mk Vc Trop- 1
Spitfire Mk Vb Trop- 1
P38 G- 2
P51 c 10- 3
Fp 3- 1
P40 e1- 2
Beaufighter Mk x- 3
P51 d 5- 4
AP 1- 2
A20g 25- 3
P38 J 15- 3
P38 E- 1
AP 4c- 3
P47 d 28- 4

Soviets

Spoiler

Mosin 1907- 1
Mosin Dragoon- 1
Mosin Sniper PE scope - 1
Mosin Sniper PU scope- 2
Mosin 38 Carbine- 1
Mosin 44 Carbine- 4
Mosin 91- 1
Winchester 1895- 1
Mosin Grenade Launcher- 1
Mosin VPGS- 1
SVT 38- 1
SVT 38 Sniper- 1
SVT 40- 1
SVT 40 Sniper- 1
AVS 36- 1
AVS 36 Sniper- 1
AVT 40- 2

PPD 34- 1
TOZ B- 1
PPS 42- 2
PPS 43- 3
PPSh 41 box- 2
PPD 34/38- 1
PPD 40- 1
PPSh 41- 1
Federov- 1
AS 44 Model 5- 5

Madsen- 1
DP 27- 1
DPM- 4
DT 29- 1
RD 44- 4
Maxim Tokarev- 1

PTRD- 1
RM 38 Mortar- 1
PTRS- 1
Bazooka- 2
GAZ AAA- 1
ROKS 2- 1
Panzerfaust 60- 5
RM 40 Mortar- 1
Panzerfaust 100- 5
ROKS 3- 2
BM 41 Mortar- 1

T 60- 1
T 26- 1
BT 7- 1
T 70- 2
T 50- 1
T 28- 1
T 28e- 1
T 34- 1
T 34 1941-1
KV 1 L-11- 1
KV 1 Zis 5- 2
T 34 85 d 5t- 4
T 34 85- 4
SU 85m- 4
IS 1- 3
IS 2-4
IS 2 1944- 4

I 153 m62- 1
LAAG 3 11- 1
Yak 1- 1
Mig 3- 1
Hurricane Mk IIB- 1
SB 2m- 1
P40 e1- 1
Yak 7b- 2
IL 2 1941- 1
SU 2 m82- 1
IL 2 37- 3
IL 2m type 3- 4
LA 5 Fn- 3
Pe 2 31- 1
PE 3- 1
Yak 3- 4
Yak 9t- 3
A 20 Boston Mk 3- 2
LA 7- 4
IL 10- 5

Germany

Spoiler

Kar98k- 1
Gewehr 33/40- 1
Kar98k Kriegsmodell- 5
Kar98k Sniper- 1
Carcano Mod 38 7.35mm- 1
Carcano M41- 1
Carcano Mod 38 7.35mm Sniper- 1
Vz 24- 1
Pre War Kar98k- 1
Carcano m1891- 1
Pre War Kar98k Sniper- 1
MAS 36- 1
Kar98k Grenade Launcher- 2
VG 1-5- 5
Mannlicher m1895- 1
Armaguerra Mod 39- 3
VG 2- 5
Carcano m91 Sniper- 1
Gewehr 98 Sniper- 1
Gewehr 41- 1
Kar98k GGP 40- 1
Gewehr 43- 3
Gewehr 43 Sniper- 3
ZH 29- 1
FG 42- 3
FG 42II- 5
FG 42II Sniper- 5

Mkb 42H Sniper- 2
Stg 44 Sniper- 4
MP 28- 1
MP 34- 1
M30 Shotgun- 1
Beretta m38a- 1
MP 3008- 5
OVP m1918- 1
FNAB 43- 3
Beretta m1918- 1
MP 38- 1
Beretta M1- 1
MP 40- 1
ZK 383- 1
MP 35/1- 1
Beretta m38/42- 2
beretta m38a 40 rounds- 1
Kiraly 39m- 1
Mkb 42 H- 2
MP 43/1- 3
Stg 44- 4

Breda Mod 30- 1
MG 13- 1
ZB 26- 1
MG 34- 1
MG 42- 2
MG 34 Patronentrommel- 1
MG 15- 3

Pzb 38- 1
Pzb 39- 1
Granatwerfer 36- 1
Sturmpistole- 2
Grb 39- 2
R75 Bike- 1
Sd Kfz 7- 1
Flammenwerfer 35- 1
Panzerfaust 60- 4
Rpzb 43 Ofenrohr- 3
Panzerfaust 100- 4
Flammenwerfer 41- 1
Kz 8cm Grw 42- 2

Panzer 2c- 1
AB 41- 1
M14/41- 1
Panzer 3b- 1
Panzer 3e- 1
75/32 M41- 3
Panzer 3j- 1
Sd Kfz 234/2- 3
Panzer 3 J1- 1
Panzer 4E- 1
Panzer 4 F1- 1
Panzer 3N- 2
Stug 3f- 2
Panzer 4 F2- 2
Panzer 4J- 4
panzer 4H- 3
Panther A- 3
Panther G- 4
Jagdpanzer 4- 4
Panzer 4/70A- 4
Panzer 4/70V- 4
Tiger E- 3
Tiger H1- 2
Tiger II P- 4
Tiger II H- 4

HS 123 A1- 1
Re 2000 Serie 1- 1
Bf 109 E7 U2- 1
Potez 633- 1
IAR 81c- 2
Ju 87 b2- 1
Ju 87 d3- 1
Ju 85 d5- 3
Bf 109 F1- 1
Bf 109 F2- 1
Ju 87 r2-1
Fw 190 A1- 1
C 202 EC- 3
Bf 110 C7- 1
Bf 110 F2- 2
Bf 110 G2- 2
Bf 109 F4 Trop- 2
Fw 190 A4- 2
Fiat G 55- 3
Ju 188 A2- 4
Bf 109 G6- 3
Me 410 A1 U2- 3
Bf 109 G10- 4
Me 410 B1- 4
Fw 190 A8- 4
Bf 109 G14- 4
Fw 190 D12- 4
Bf 109 K4- 4

Japan

Spoiler

Type 38 Carbine- 1
Type 38 Rifle- 1
Type 97 Sniper Rifle- 1
Type 1 Rifle- 1
Type 99 Rifle Late- 4
Type 99 Rifle Early- 2
Type 38 Grenade Launcher- 1
Type 99 Sniper Rifle- 1
Type Hei Rifle- 1
Type 99 Grenade Launcher- 2
Type otsu rifle- 1
Type 4 Rifle- 5
Type Hei Automatic Rifle- 1

S1 100- 1
Type 100 Early- 2
MP 28- 1
Type 2a SMG- 1
Sig 1920- 1
Type 100 Late- 4
Type 2 SMG- 4
Tokyo Arsenal SMG- 1

Type 11 LMG- 1
Type 97 LMG- 1
Type 96 LMG-1
Type 99 LMG- 1
Type 100 MG- 5

Type 97 AT Rifle- 1
Type 89 Mortar- 1
Type 5 Rocket Launcher- 4
Type 94 Iszu- 1
Type 4 Rocket Launcher- 4
Type 93 Flamethrower- 1
Type 100 Flamethrower- 1

Ta Se- 1
Ha Go- 1
Ke Ni- 2
Ka Mi- 2
Ho I- 2
Ho Ni 1- 2
Ho Ni 3- 4
Chi Ha Short Gun- 4
Chi Nu- 4
Na To- 5
Ho Ri- 4

E13a1- 1
A5m4- 1
D3a1- 1
A6m2- 1
B5n2- 1
D4y1- 2
Ki 61 2 Otsu Kai- 4
J2m3- 4
Ki 84 Ko- 4

5 Likes
2

I would almost prefer just getting rid of BR then do a Historical BR system. Historical is naturally unbalanced if kept strictly, Hence, why we are seeing prototypes a lot for certain factions. I get why some want it, but it would be better to make an Even Fight mode for that, which enforces specific equipment in an effort to keep balance.

1 Like
3

Funnily enough the First System they proposed with (The map system) would have accomodated this…

But players hated it and cried out for BR…

I liked the potential of the First system much better…

6 Likes
4

The BR system is extremely stupid in a World War 2 game. Putting fantasy weapons and prototypes into the mix was really stupid. I honestly liked the Campaign mode better than this. If I wanted to play in the Pacific, you just go there. Normandy? Go there. Tunisia? Go there. There was a lot of promise for the game after the Big Merge, but that all depends on how many more “Campaign” maps they plan on adding to the game. The Big Merge signified to me there was going to be an effort to keep expanding the game and the Campaign model diluted the factions across multiple siloed queues. If more campaigns don’t come, then what was even the fricking point?

At a minimum, they absolutely should have worked map preferences into the game as a feature for Premium.

Map preference would have been a lot better than what we got. The game is still fun (I’m still here) but it’s been watered down a hell of a lot with each round of “balancing.” The belligerents weren’t balanced. Forced equality is a flat lie.

4 Likes
5

The beauty of everything is this game still has such great possibilities to continue to evolve and change. It’s a great platform, it’s just a long march of trial and error

3 Likes
6

Loving this recommendation, the only one thing i see people having a good reason to complain about is the AVT 40 at 2

7

Except this isnt exactly lone fighter where each fight is 1v1.
Even if you got lucky with your BA and got 5 guys out of 6 man FG42 squad, the 6th guy would mow down your entire BA squad.

And generally, this “historical” stuff was somekind of a thing back in moscow for ~29 ? lvl’s.
Didnt work out.

Want some HA ? Custom games.

8

But most players on console don’t play custom games :clown_face:

1 Like
9

So Fedorov and Type hei automatic rifle are BR1? That sure won’t be exploited.

2 Likes
10

Didnt notice the type hei auto until now. Although simple solution would be to put the fedorov in br2 with the mkb and to put the pacific at tier 5 put the type hei auto in there just like it is now and put the avt 40 with the 3 and then things on this system that gilt suggested would be good.

11

Then I see no reason for this at all as most players apparently dont even want it.

12

But now people are asking for it again. Did you not check the top of the thread?

13

fixed, customs.

14

Sir, people want to make exp. And i also see some new players here on the forums wanting a system like this. So are you gonna tell new players like such to go to customs then, eliminating anyway to level up?

15

Pick one, enjoy the niche “HA” or get exp.

Ah in that case, people with ~10 games and probably dont stick around for another 10, definitely are the ones that know how to balance the game.

1 Like
16

And here i am thinking i am the unwelcoming type of player.

17

Well quite obviously, if your idea of “good game” is to introduce complete new comers to PPSH & Fedorov, just so you can have your “HA” fantasy.

18

No different from introducing them to 75mm apc and mkb42

19

Yeah right, like tiger 2 and vulksturm guns in stalingrad and early war maps wasn’t fantasy

1 Like
20

Never grinded the apc so no idea what BR it is.
Mkb42 how ever surely aint at low BR’s meeting new comers.

Switch map names to snow 1,2,3,4,5,6 etc.
Problem solved.