I genuinely believe that if EA had not included women in BFV, that it would have been more of a commercial success. I also genuinely believe that if Gaijin doesn’t include women in Enlisted, it would be more of a commercial success than if they do. BFV didn’t reach what EA was hoping it would reach, they were disappointed, and I believe that a part of it is due to historically unrealistic inclusion of females. It’s identity politics, and identity politics tends to be commercial poison, which is why ‘get woke, go broke’ is so widely known online.
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I spoke only from microtransaction wiew add woman and things for woman skin,wardarobe ecc in game is every time a money success and if this create free publicity bad or good for a company is more good because this actract public and new user, commercial failure/succes for this is a separate matter but for money make in short period is a success
It will cost money to implement, and it may very well cause people to turn their backs on the game because of the perceived identity politics. The other day I very nearly put another $10 down for another month of premium, but held off, and depending on how they handle this female soldier issue, I might never put another dollar down for this game again. It seems we will have to agree to disagree, and I stand by my assertion that EA would have made more money from BFV if they hadn’t made that retarded trailer.
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This is normal bfv trailer is… there is no word for describe of bad his(bionic woman), the fact they make more money if they not add woman in trailer its not true in the end everyone like BF buy him, like everyone like COD buy him after COD infinity warfare trailer
Now the only important things is the dev add woman withaut context in game and start an enormous polemic or doing this slow and carefully?
The perception of the politic, gender or feminism crap depends on how they implement it.
If they stick in the armys, soldier types and percentages more or less reals of females, then i dont think that any will desagree, because they fought, bleed and died like the men, and earned their merits to be represented.
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I feel I can agree quite wholeheartedly with your sentiment. It depends on the implementation. I’ve just seen so much identity politics for so long, even in ways that it had directly had a negative affect on my personal life, that when I start to catch even a hint of it I start to see red. As you can see, I got quite heated in the original post of this thread I started. I’m easing up now, especially as I see the sheer numbers of women who served with the Red Army and had performed meritorious actions. So, if they implement this without leftist politics, if it is legitimate and genuine, and proper representation is maintained (meaning BY FAR mostly male soldiers, and seemingly BY FAR most female combatants relegated to sniping, piloting, and as medics with seemingly a seriously small amount having more of a direct front-line infantry combat role) then I will applaud Gaijin on doing it right.
Thank you for your thoughtful post. It seems truthful, honest, and reasonable. Tempted to even regard it as wise.
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Well it seems that you guys are already digging in a few names of the brave real women that fought in the red army in WW2, Still I haven’t seen a single mention of the night witches, which is the nickname of the most successful night boner regiment of WW2, and it was an all women regiment, which used outdated biplane trainers and turn their engines off before a bomb run. That meant that their victims only manage to see a small and fast shadow going over them before getting hit by the bombs, causing them to be completed terrified and eventually their most superstitious soldiers began to think this women had supernatural powers, hence the nickname.
Around 800.000 women fought in the red army making it around 5% of the army (1 in 20), this women are far more over represented in the medical and anti aircraft roles, but still there are quite a lot of renown women snipers, gunners, and pilots, which went above and beyond the line of duty an did a lot of impressive stuff.
Also that is without taking in account the women that fought with the different partizan factions within the Soviet Union.
In other notes, combat roles that women occupied across history are often overlook, mostly due to cultural reasons, but even if they where not common, there are various cases of women fighting in different conflicts with a varied degree of success, one good example of this would be Zheng Yi Sao which was a Chinese pirate queen that successfully defeated not only the whole Chinese fleet but also the east India trading company, and a Portuguese fleet too, forcing the emperor to surrender to her demands, that way she managed to retire with all of her treasures, a feet that almost no other high profile pirate manage to accomplish.
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How would you even implement female characters in Enlisted?
Would you have like a 0.001% chance of getting a female when you get new tank crew, sniper class, or a pilot class soldiers for the Red army and just ignore which tank, infantry and air force units had females in them and which didn’t? Would that character be locked into a squad of the historically correct unit or change their gender and name when moved to an all-male unit?
Or would there be a premium “2nd Guards Tank Corps, 26th Guards Tank Brigade” T-34 squad for example that comes with a female tank commander? Assuming that premium tank squads work similar to premium infantry squads that I have, you couldn’t move the crew member to another tank in another unit, which would fix the problem with historical accuracy in the first option, but then the squad would represent a really specific tank and a crew in 26th Guards Tank Brigade instead of the average tank and its crew of that unit. I feel like it would start being too specific, it would be like if the US had a premium infantry squad that comes with Audie Murphy and his squad mates or if Germans had a premium Stuka squad that comes with Hans Rudel and his gunner.
Finding more info here, and I’m finding a lot of quite legitimate-looking sources, books published by notable publishers with ISBN numbers.
“There were 800,000 women who served in the Soviet Armed Forces during the war”
-Heroines of the Soviet Union 1941-45 by Henry Sakaida
“Which is roughly 5 percent of total military personnel.”
-West Point History of WWII, apparently by the US Military Academy in 2015, page 235, published by Simon and Schuster
“Of the medical personnel in the Red Army, 40% of paramedics, 43% of surgeons, 46% of doctors, 57% of medical assistants, and 100% of nurses were women.”
-Soviet Women on the Front Line During the Second World War by Roger D. Markwick and Euridice C. Cardona
Seems like a lot of your claims check out, very interesting. So, 5% of soldiers (mostly medics/pilots/snipers it would seem) were female. Gaijin is gonna have to be very forthright, accurate, and clear about this risky business if they’re going to do it without pissing off a bunch of the gamers already playing, and gamers considering playing. Truth and realism is key. If truth and realism is at all disregarded, then it is blatant identity politics invading this game, and ought to be met with resistance like the fascist invaders of the USSR. I vow not to spend a penny on Enlisted until I find out how they’re going to go about this process of including women soldiers in their game…
Women do also have on average better color sensitivity with their eyesight than men, and thus are more likely to pick out someone camouflaged, especially at range, which is one physical difference reason why they might have better performance as snipers, besides just the smaller on average physical size.
Inclusion of real WWII soldiers from history would be interesting, though might be important to take the law into consideration. I think those who fought and died in WWII, by now, wouldn’t have any sort of ‘protection’ if it were to even be sought by surviving relatives/friends of the KIA veterans, if any opposed their likeness and name in a WWII free-to-play videogame. I think Gaijin would have to get their lawyers to look into the matter and see if any sort of legal backlash could take place by using the likeness and names of actual people who fought in WWII in their videogame. I don’t know enough on the matter to be able to say for sure. The concept is interesting though, and I do believe it would be good if people could learn more about heroes of WWII, both on the Allied side and the Axis side.
An interesting point if that is true. I hear that women also, in spite of the smaller bones, somehow have stronger backs than men to help with carrying around a 9 month old baby in their womb. Women also allegedly have a more keen sense of smell if memory serves, which particularly helps in ensuring that a pregnant woman doesn’t accidentally eat spoiled food which could harm her unborn baby. There may be other advantages than women have over men, but I think it’s pretty obvious that the primary advantages that help in war are men’s. Physically stronger, faster, thicker bones, lower in personality trait agreeableness and I’m pretty sure also lower in personality trait neuroticism (some of those psychological advantages that men have over women that I had alluded to), etc. I find the psychological differences between men and women to be rather fascinating, and the natural gender roles. If the colour aspect is true, then you have identified a gender difference in woman that indeed gives her a slight edge over men in a specific aspect of war, though it would take a whole lot more than that to try and counter the male advantages.
We’re just better built for combat, simple as. That’s not to say that it is impossible that women have any advantages that men don’t have, what you say may well be true. It’s easy to accept information online as fact, though, when properly cited. Just saying. It’s very helpful, which is why I often look for citations and sources when presenting information, especially if it’s info that people might not readily believe. I abhor spreading misinformation and do my best to ensure that anything I say, and anything I write, is truthful.
OMG this whole post 
The difference between Battlfield V is Enlisted is going for authenticity. Women did indeed fight in WW2. That is a fact.
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If you read prior comments, you’ll find that it has been found that hundreds of thousands of women in the Red Army did indeed partake in WWII. There has been question as to what extent (I initially believed less than 1%, but it turns out to be 5%), and whether there was ever an all-female squad, which there was, a sniper squad commanded by a woman whom has been linked in this thread and called a hero of WWII, which she was.
I do very much hope that Gaijin implements women in an authentic fashion, though I still believe the safe route would be to simply not because of the state of our political climate and all the identity politics going on. People might start to think they smell some identity politics bullshit, which I initially did, and I still detect a possible waft of it in the air. Time will tell if Gaijin handles this subject appropriately, realistically, and are not just virtue-signalling to leftists in a desperate attempt to get more players. I think they did very well in getting Pewdiepie to make a video of it, in fact I was rather surprised that seemingly for once, Pewds played a game AFTER I played it rather than the other way around, where I try a game because Pewds played it and it seemed cool. Such was the case with Stardew Valley, which is quite a charming little game.
Edit:
I had accidentally wrote ‘linked in this threat’ rather than ‘linked in this thread’ which is what I meant.
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Gaijin…please do not start with the political BS if this is the road you are thinking of traveling. I am worried this was the first item you wanted to reply to but maybe it’s just a coincidence. Please do not got the BFV route and try to re-write history to make a small group of loud mouthed “woke”, “fans” happy. It is fact that women fighting on the frontline was VERY VERY rare (IE - less than 20 US women died from enemy fire). While a single woman in a premium sniper squad for the USSR may fit, the BS BFV tried to do (and then tried to correct) made a mockery to the millions who died fighting on both sides.
Sincerely,
A paying fan since the first Beta
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Gaijin…please do not start with the political BS if this is the road you are thinking of traveling. I am worried this was the first item you wanted to reply to but maybe it’s just a coincidence. Please do not got the BFV route and try to re-write history to make a small group of loud mouthed “woke”, “fans” happy. It is fact that women fighting on the frontline was very very rare especially outside of the USSR (IE - less than 20 US women died from enemy fire). While a single woman in a premium sniper squad for the USSR may fit, the BS BFV tried to do (and then tried to correct) made a mockery to the millions who died fighting on both sides.
Sincerely,
A paying fan since the first Beta
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I don’t care what the numbers were. Obviously, men and women did not fight in even numbers in WW2. If a few insecure “men” can’t handle women in their video games and leave? Screw them, I for one will not miss them. Let them play CoD.
The fact that this idea is even “political” is bullsh** We should be angry that our bullsh** wars required any woman to lose her life. 20 women died for the US and people treat that number like a statistic? Insulting.
Gamers who play historical games often want those games to be historically accurate. If you don’t like that this issue is political, blame leftists and feminists. What you’re seeing here is the counter-culture to the identity politics that leftists and feminists have been shoving down society’s throats for years. People are fed up with it. Go found a company that will produce a WWII game that has unrealistically large numbers of women. Make some of them disabled with prosthetics. Give 'em unnatural hair colours like blue or neon red. Make them every bit as imposing and capable as the men. Maybe you’ll strike big and it’ll take off, I’m certain the critics will be singing praises as they support leftist projects as they tend to do… but I suspect it’d be another ‘get woke, go broke’ project like that all-female 2016 Ghostbusters. Yes, its revenue was greater than its budget, but the budget doesn’t include costs towards marketing. They’d need $300,000,000 to break even and it came to just shy of $230,000,000, resulting in a net loss of $70,000,000. Identity politics doesn’t work.
And you chose to play game that is historically accurated & realistic about as much as Mariokart ?
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