Female Soldiers

Oh boy, identity politics again, let’s just hope they don’t go the route of that stupid woman with a prosthetic hand who was jumping and diving on the Western Front about while tanks were rolling. Cringe. Yes, some women FOUGHT in WWII, to my knowledge they were primarily with the USSR, and they were primarily snipers, possibly some pilots too though I’m not certain. SQUADS of female soldiers? Gaijin better do their damn research on this and make it abundantly clear to all, otherwise it’s historically inaccurate virtue-signalling to left-wing identity politics, and shit like that disgusts me.

Here’s my suggestion; either keep women out of the God damn WWII game, or make them so utterly rare that they are scarcely ever seen, in fact since they were mostly in the sniping role, they shouldn’t be seen at all unless through a counter-sniper’s scope if they’re doing their job properly. In the interest of historical correctness, I do not anticipate ever letting some woman join any of my squads. Men fight wars, and men are better built for it. Thicker bones, bigger hearts, bigger lungs, more muscle, and the more narrow structure of our pelvis also allows for a greater chance of surviving falls without injury than women’s pelvis which is widened for bearing children and more easily damaged from a fall. There are reasons, both physical AND psychological, why it’s almost 100% men fighting wars in the past and still the vast majority of people in the Military today are male, as much as modern Militaries in the West are trying as hard as they can, including my own nation’s Canadian Armed Forces, to get females enlisted.

I don’t bloody understand it, I just hope they’re not lowering standards to try and get more women through BMQ (Basic Military Qualifications) because if they can’t reach the lowest standards for men, they shouldn’t be getting in. If they are, and they don’t meet those historic standards, then they are making the Military weaker with their inclusion. If a woman somehow manages to meet those standards, fine, give her a chance and keep up this experiment with the lives of our soldiers, because that’s exactly what this is when we’re including women in the Military. It is an experiment that has extremely little historical basis, and no, women on average cannot do what men on average can do. Women have, on average, 50% of a man’s upper-body strength and 60% of a man’s lower-body strength, based on studies done in the Netherlands or Denmark if memory serves.

Well, 52% and 66% actually, but regardless, that’s kind of a big damn deal and you need a freakishly strong woman in order to have her compare to a particularly lacking man. But we’re talking MILITARY men, men who are made to run miles, march over a dozen kilometers with full kit without stopping, made to do so many push-ups that comfortable and doughy civilians like myself would puke before I’d manage a fraction of them. FIT men… and the Military is trying to find women who can compete with FIT men? I don’t see how they can manage it without lowering standards. If they do that, they ought to damn-well be lowering pay as well as far as I’m concerned, though really they ought not be getting in at all unless they MEET MEN’S STANDARDS!

A female soldier fighting a male US Marine, enjoy. Give her props for staying in the fight as long as she did, sure, but the winner is so blatantly obvious. She claimed she could whoop anyone on base, she lost by TKO. She was a helpless little woman in that ring, and the average woman is helpless in the face of the average man, just as a professionally trained woman is helpless in the face of a professionally trained man. That is nature, it is reality, whether it is liked or disliked. At least she’ll be able to pick up arms in the face of the enemy and not fight him with fists because she’d end up beaten and… well… given the typical enemy of the West lately she’d probably end up with more, and then probably enslaved if captured. That’s the kind of barbarians and savages that they’re trying to prepare women to fight, women DO NOT belong on the front line. As a sniper, far away from the enemy, little-to-no chance of physical melee combat, okay, a woman can be effective in that role because there’s very little emphasis on her strength and speed, of which a woman has less than a man.

There is also that soccer match between a professional women’s team, and a high school football team of teenage boys. The boys won 5-2.

US National women’s team versus under-15 boy’s academy team.

If women are gonna be included in-game in Enlisted, they better be few, and rock-solid proof should be presented with each and every inclusion to any role. As for an all-female squad, again, present proof for including it. Better to not be at it at all, it smells like bullshit virtue signalling in today’s identity politics. It stinks. Find out EXACTLY how many women served in the Red Army and saw combat, then take the total number of Red Army combatants, find out the percentage of men vs women (likely over 99% male) and make damn sure that that percentage is maintained. Ought to make it cost 10,000E ($100 USD) to obtain ONE female USSR soldier to help in keeping them bloody rare… bullshit I tell you.

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Developer’s Q&A - June - English speaking section / News - Enlisted

If they say it like that - probably it will be a premium squad. Something like a premium fighter plane for US, that belong to the unit, that consisted of black people.

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Make them only Premium Squad, they should be insanely Rare

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As it happens, I’m aware of there being Black pilots with the US in WWII, apparently also WWI. Historical fact, and it’s exclusive thus rare, which is good.

Historical precedent needs to be provided for full squads. I do recall seeing a photo of several females with scoped M91/30 rifles, maybe all those females was a SQUAD of snipers, but it needs to be known. There needs to be historical precedent otherwise this is BS pandering to try and attract the attention of left-wing ideologues. Don’t want any “Get woke, go broke” nonsense going on here, because when wokeness gets into forms of media, the brokeness that often follows is very much deserved.

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Premium T34 female Squad?
Мария Васильевна Октябрьская?

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“I demand to be able to play as a “black girl with robotic arms, while serving in the waffen SS”
anything else would offend me”

quote: some random real busted full retard

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Well if they add them only like premium squad and only in historical role(no cyborg woman rush the battlefield and doing one hit one kill because “YES”) wy not

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Premium to keep it rare, ideally the highest premium price possible which seems to be 3750E, though had I seen one for over 4000E? I don’t know, but yeah, highest price to keep it rare, and with HISTORICAL CONTEXT. Gaijin might attract SOME attention at including historically realistic female soldiers for the Red Army, but they’d be pissing off/frustrating/annoying/disappointing a far greater number of gamers that they already have the attention of. That is my perspective anyhow.

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For me is sufficient enlisted not become like battlefield V and even with premium the risk of the entire game is filled by woman soldier from moscow to the tunisia is high a possible solution is to use only one full woman squad per battle

That’s why Twitch drops would be the best option to indtroduce female soldiers. Each player would have only one, nothing more.

But if they introduce them in form of female plane regiments (of course if they were any in the campaigns that we have - so probably not in Moscow) it should work without any problems too.

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Yeah agree, price should be much higher since they are unique, if people want them they will buy them

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Agree with twitch drops for introduce them and relegate them to plane,tank at least sniper regiment dont destroy the game balance +1
Now we have to wiew only the dev idea for this and pray this dont start another gender crusade

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I’m still skeptical on the whole ‘full woman squad’ concept. Context needed to prove that an all-female squad existed. All-female sniper squad is reasonably believable given there are indeed many photos online of female Soviet snipers, I especially like the one of the woman literally hugging her scoped Mosin.

Here is a photo that may or may not be a squad of female Soviet snipers. It might also be a photo op that was organized, possibly even post-war though of course I don’t know that for sure, so it could be an actual squad or they might actually be individually-operating female snipers whom were brought together for photos. Looks like each and every one has a PU scoped Mosin, which was the most common optic used by the USSR. 3.5x magnification, I owned a Mosin with reproduction PU scope on it, very nice, though I’m pretty sure the PE and PEM scoped that I think are based on German designs may have been superior but the Russian PU was cheaper to produce. First was PE, then PEM which may have been a bit cheaper, and then the PU came last and ultimately dominated. PE and PEM may have been 4x, so slightly stronger magnification, but correct me if I am wrong.

Here’s another, just for fun… really hard for me to choose which one I think is cuter. The one on the left with the smile is lovely but then I looked to the one on the right, and damn, they’re both lookers. One on the right has lovely hair, and again they’re sporting PU M91/30.


(Edit)

The image doesn’t seem to be uploading, so I’ll provide the link here:

Na z’drovya, ladies.

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Got some more info, though still need to find sources to confirm.

This article claims this:
“Roza Georgiyevna Shanina earned the nickname “Terror of East Prussia”, she specialised in shooting moving targets, earning herself 59 kills. When her all female unit came under attack from German infantry, their opponents were promptly defeated by a combination of sniper fire, hand-to-hand combat and a few were even captured.”

It does appear as though Roza Shanina existed, served, and was KIA in January 1945 at the age of 20, 3 months from 21 years old. Seems to have been a part of 1st Sniper Platoon (184th Rifle Division).

Her diary was published in 1965, I found this quote on Wiki which is sourced by a college, I’m inclined to think it accurate.

" In the same entry, she wrote that she had no fear and that she had even agreed to go “to a melee combat.” The next day, Shanina wrote in a letter that she might be on the verge of being killed because her battalion had lost 72 out of 78 people."

So she had agreed to go ‘to a melee combat,’ but that doesn’t confirm that she actually got into melee combat like the ‘warlord games’ website claims. She was ultimately killed near artillery, so probably a fair bit behind the line, and was found disemboweled with her chest ripped open from shrapnel. She died the next day and was buried under a pear tree, later properly interred somewhere respectful, which she was fully deserving of.

I ctrl-F for melee on the Wiki site, that was the only use of the word melee. I still believe that if she actually did go into melee combat again male German troops she would have been overwhelmed. I also believe it possible that, for propaganda purposes, it may have been advantageous to capture her and spread it through German media that the Soviets are even forcing their women to fight, they are so desperate. Of course, she ACTUALLY volunteered to fight, and good on her, but I can see it being used for propaganda as a negative thing.

Here is Roza Shanina.
Roza Shanina

She is a hero of WWII.

More, I found this quote.

“In Apr 1944, she was made the commander of the all-female 1st Sniper Platoon of the Soviet 184th Rifle Division, in the same month she would kill her first German soldier in Byelorussia and then was awarded the Order of Glory 3rd Class. In Jun 1944, all female snipers in her sector were ordered to be withdrawn, but she (along with many of the women in her platoon) disobeyed her orders and joined an infantry unit.”

On this website:

“After the momentous victory in the Battle of Stalingrad, the Soviets mounted nationwide counter-offensives and Shanina on 2 April 1944 joined the 184th Rifle Division, where a separate female sniper platoon had been formed. Shanina was appointed a commander of that platoon.”

This is sourced, we may have confirmation of an all-female squad. The wording isn’t that clear or precise, but I am moving towards acceptance of an all-female sniper squad. Besides, at almost 2500 female snipers… I mean c’mon, SURELY an all-female team would have been organized at some point. Seems reasonable to separate women from the men anyhow, all that testosterone and intensity and danger. What use is a soldier if her gut’s swollen with a baby, waddling around like a duck? Ought to be home cooking food in that condition, not at the bloodiest front of the bloodiest war in human history, icing Krauts. Though, that said, perhaps it’s a shame that she didn’t end up getting pregnant, it would have meant that she probably wouldn’t have died at 20 years old. Let the men fight and die, I may even go so far as to say that the death of a woman is more tragic than the death of a man, just as a general statement. Men are not worthless, far from it, but we are more expendable than women and are not as valued by society. I am not even going to claim that that is wrong, that’s probably how it should be, although I do believe that over the decades, feminism has done hard work to diminish the perception of value in men. If we succeed, it is not because we studied hard or worked hard or were innovative, it’s because we’re privileged and have things handed to us freely. If a woman fails, it’s not because she didn’t study hard enough or didn’t work hard enough or wasn’t innovative enough, it is because she is oppressed and has opportunity held over her head beyond a glass ceiling by men. Now there is some genuine Marxist bullshit right there.

I also found this:
“In 1941–1945 a total of 2,484 Soviet female snipers were deployed for the war and their combined tally of kills is estimated to be at least 11,280.”

It is on wikipedia, and the source cites a Russian gun magazine, and mentions the title “A Non-Woman Business?” Might be accurate. So, almost 2500 female Soviet snipers, didn’t expect the number to be so large. Average of more than 4 kills each, though of course the Pareto Distribution is doubtlessly present with a small few having obtained a large portion of that, and probably also a large portion of those snipers were killed before they got their first kill. The same would be the case for male snipers, it is simply science and nature, Pareto Distribution, AKA the Matthew Principle.

So lads, I think I am accepting of Gaijin including an all-female sniper squad, though I also think they should be made differently from men. Smaller, thus more difficult targets, but also with less damage in melee. If a female sniper manages to kill a man in melee combat, he ought to be already so injured as to be close to death. Maybe a female with a bayoneted firearm and a man using the butt of his rifle would end up doing similar damage, but it would be unrealistic for women to be able to do the same melee damage as men especially when comparing apples to apples; male pistol whip vs female pistol whip. Male rifle-butt vs female rifle-butt. Male bayonet vs female bayonet. It only makes sense that, in melee, they would be significantly disadvantaged and should avoid it as all cost unless they just don’t care about dying. 52% the upper body strength of men, 66% the lower body strength as men. Women should do half the melee damage, and technically shouldn’t be able to run as fast either.

I can’t really think of an advantage for a female sniper over a male sniper beyond being physically smaller thus technically slightly more difficult to hit, and having smaller heart/lungs might also make instantly-fatal or near-instantly-fatal hits slightly more difficult too. Given that women are so much smaller than men, technically they probably have smaller brains too, but to my understanding in terms of IQ men and women are basically the same. The difference is, the bell curve for male intelligence is shorter and wider while for females it’s taller and skinnier. This means that, though in the middle they are both at the same point, men have far more people who go way to one side of the spectrum and are seriously unintelligent, but men also dominate women by having far more people on the OTHER side of the spectrum. In short, the majority of geniuses on the planet are men, meanwhile for people with totally average intelligence, women dominate, and on the other end of the spectrum the majority of morons on the planet are male. We got the geniuses and the idiots, women tend to be more in the middle, so whatever ‘brain size’ might have to do with things, no, to my knowledge women have the same average IQ level as men.

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It is not said anywhere that it will be women only infantry squad.

It could be premium sniper squad with 1 female sniper in it for example. We will se how it will play out.

But overall you did a great job by finding all that info. As long as they keep it as historicaly accurate as possible (like Keofox wrote in the Q&A) it will be fine. No another BFV bs.

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:woman_shrugging:

i don’t see where all the fussies are coming from.

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“Yes, we have plans for historical squads where women actually fought.”

The wording is indeed up for debate, but it’s possible they intend on implementing an all-female squad. As it happens, there appear to have been all-female squads of snipers in the Red Army, so it is technically realistic to some degree, though it seems like they were generally withdrawn from combat that was too active. They did, though, according to Roza’s diary, snipe at Germans in German-held territory.

Where’s my volksturm squad of children with panzerfaust in Berlin

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… technically might be realistic for the Berlin Campaign…

(Edited: I spelt campaign and champaign like a moron.)

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