Not if it’s cheesed, like the ninja scenario I mentioned.
The defenders should realistically be aware of what they’re supposed to defend before the attackers…
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It is but it also isn’t.
A simple time lock would still allow attackers to swarm onto the point in advance, and for the most part keep the defenders out, completely negating this as a solution.
Whereas the creeping greyzone outright fixes the issue as defenders have a chance to fall back and prepare without being harassed by attackers the entire time just trying to get to the point they are supposed to defend.
This right here is a key point. I’ve said it myself many times that defenders need to be given the information of where ALL objective points are going to be throughout the game.
Not just “when the last objective gets close” either.
This way not only do they have a chance to fall back, but also a chance to fortify.
All the tools that the engineers have don’t matter if they don’t get a chance to put them up.
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Ninja scenario happen if your team is not that good honestly…
I think the right path is to wait to see how it is the situation after the merge
Oh I would cheese spam mines all around, every round on defence i just send my unit to the point, dropping mines everywhere, push them on offence, respawn new squad, repeat. If mine pouches to be added, I will slap them on every poor bastard if possible
MINE POUCHES need to be added.
I would only agree to this if a limit on the number of mines you can have in a squad was introduced.
It’s simple: otherwise you end up with major griefing issues. Plus you will not be effect-free, you’ll get concussion effect from friendly arty as well.
Of course, you know your own arty and explosives are totally lethal to you right?
The big difference is that the way mines are being used right now, due to the way you & friendlies are immune to them and don’t trigger them, makes them incredibly cheesy and completely counterintuitive from 1.) How mines are used in real life and 2.) How mine detection should work.
Unless you fix those two, mines will be bullshit unfun grief weapon.
I’ll elaborate on the problem.
Typically mines are used in front and on the flanks of the position. In enlisted, mines are used in your own position preferably around choke points you are using as well. They are thrown to the cheesiest chokepoints used also by the defenders at 0 cost. Barbed wires will damage and slow defenders as well. Defenders dont clip through sandbags either. Mines however have magic FoF-detection.
Which leads into the biggest problem in detection: enemy squad rushes through the hallway, you kill them and walk past the bodies - bang mine goes off and you are dead. The enemy squad should have triggered the mine. Being able to look at where the enemy walks should be a good indicator of mines or no mines. Much better indicator than any vitality+medkit bullshit at least, but no this is totally broken.
You need to address these issues if you want to have more mines in the game, not expect all other players to build their squads around mines or do some complex dance in the game to get around one.
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After the CONVERSION, I’m not too hopeful. I just saw some tech “tree” being worked on because magic
(Dont ask how)
And it’s actually worse than their first draft.
And you need to do the same regarding grenades and other explosive ordinance.
They are ONLY lethal to the squad member that you are using at that moment. The rest of your squad is safe from harm.
I see FAR more issues of griefing with grenade spam than I do mine spam. By a very large margin.
You do know that throwing a grenade into the room with a mine will detonate the mine right?
That may be the case, but those choke points only have so much space. Only so many mines can be put in them before you run into the issue of chain reactions.
More people would probably use them outside IF
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Defenders actually had time to set up a defense and weren’t instead spending their time running away from the attackers.
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If people actually had more than just 1 or 2 to set. The reason they are dropped in doorways and narrow choke points is that they are much more likely to get a kill. The EXACT SAME REASON that you throw a grenade into narrow choke points and small rooms.
If they had a few more to work with, they would be much more likely to spread them out and cover flank routes, rather than clustering them into choke points. -
If you are having so much issue with mines in choke points, why are you not trying to flank? Toss a grenade in the choke point to keep the enemies busy and then move around the side.
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Speaking of tossing a grenade in to keep them busy, if you set off a mine with a grenade, it counts as YOUR explosion, resulting in them sustaining damage from it. It works both ways if you are the one to trigger it!
Setting up one or two characters per player shouldn’t be that big of an issue. After all, most players are gearing their guys out with grenade pouches anyways. My anti-mine character is much cheaper than outfitting a grenadier.
What complex dance?
- You step on it, you know there are mines.
- Either you take your chances and go through it, go around, or toss some grenades/ shoot them/ or run a anti-mine guy through the route.
I don’t see how this is ANY worse than the BS we have to deal with regarding grenade spam.
1 Like
I dont need to do shit. Unlike you, I’m not going around asking for more grenades, I’m quite fine with the status quo thanks.
They are ONLY lethal to the squad member that you are using at that moment. The rest of your squad is safe from harm.
Fine by me.
I see FAR more issues of griefing with grenade spam than I do mine spam. By a very large margin.
I don’t. Grenades are a thing which requires player action, a bit of skill, enemy gets a big notification (throw animation, blinking explosive indicator) where the receiving player has multiple active sources of resolution (shoot, run, throw back). It’s an actually interactive part of the game.
Mines are absolute dogshit in comparison.
What’s the matter man, i thought you hated grenade spam? 
I generally have an issue with mines being not fun as an interactive part of the game with the current implementation and i dont need to see any more of them in the game.
Ok, how would you improve the mine detection interactiveness and realism if you want more mines in the game and not just more doorway grief bs?
Yet half of your solution suggestions involve grenades?
But lets be real now - Simple question: How would you improve the functionality of mines from detection & self-risk perspectives if that was a precondition to getting more of them?
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Of course you’re not. Because the grenade pouches that enable you to carry up to 3 grenades already exist, and correct me if I’m wrong, you probably use them quite a lot. I’m just trying to get the same thing in regards to mines.
Impact grenades and molotovs don’t require you to cook them, and detonate on impact. Impact grenades have a larger blast radius than AP mines. Molotovs, we all know what molotovs do.
Contrary to your belief, proper usage of mines does take a degree of skill, map knowledge, and preplanning.
BOTH grenades and mines can technically be used with low skill, placed or thrown into a general area, and still get some kills. However, AP mines, just like grenades are much more effective when you take some time to use them properly, and can benefit from a skilled player.
As far as detection goes, the most I’d be able to get behind is perhaps an indicator that pops up when you are just on the edge of its trigger radius, so if you are going slow, you can detect it and either avoid it, destroy it, or defuse it (and get some points).
If a player is running through and steps on them, its still should kill.
Pretty much how grenades are now. A warning indicator when they are in close proximity, and they don’t hurt teammates (unless mines are detonated by the enemy).
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OK that’s at least a start, maybe worthwhile to discuss in a separate thread even. Thanks, sorry if i come across as hostile.
I’ve tried bringing it up on its own thread, 2 or 3 times now. However, its only ever met with hostile resistance rather taking the time to discuss it, but by all means, I’ll participate in the conversation on another thread.
Or we could get this:
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The only problem with this is it requires tanks to push forward, which with explosive packs enabling any type of soldier to kill a tank with ease, is probably not going to happen anytime soon.
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I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t approach a 38 ton vehicle with chains swinging at high speed kicking up rocks.
(not from the front at least.)
Actually this would be the perfect assault tank with a shortened barrel.
The swinging chains could stop anti-tank projectiles, destroy mines and fortifications, and delete infantry.
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Tanks already destroy most fortifications by running them over, and they brought back the ability to run over infantry as is.
Yes but swinging chains are cooler.
The funniest thing is all of this has already been tested and proven in BF – lock the next sector/objective for 30-60 seconds to give the defending team a chance to fall back and force them there by a blinking grey zone, while giving the defenders something to do i.e. push the defenders to retreat, gaining spawn points with every non-retreated defender killed.
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How can it be worse??? Noooo dont say that.
I dont remember any feedback that suggested making it worse.
It was pretty clear cut where it needed changing