Yep, this system is super easy to abuse, bring 2 squads with only kar98ks then 1 engineer squad with 1/2 G43K’s with the rest being kars, easy infinite ammo burst rifle dominating T1 players
12 Likes
I like the general idea of having all weapons available in a match, but gated in a way you cant bring full stacks of them.
The only reason making BR necessary is the over abundace of poweful gear at any one time. No moderation. But i doubt the game will ever do that
2 Likes
Will it be same as balance in a battle with teamates with only fg42-2 and 1 engineer squad with 1/2 G43K’s.
From another perspective, it solves the balance of the situation you described.
6 Likes
This system dont have sense…
2 Likes
You don’t need to reply to something that doesn’t make sense if it doesn’t make sense, and of course everyone likes different things.
Just like I don’t think this your reply makes sense here.
Of course it’s just beside the point. I think constructive discussion is important.
8 Likes
In my post a few days ago, I put forward a suggestion that is generally the same as yours.I also took historical correctness into account:
I’m glad to see someone with similar ideas to me. In fact, since Enlisted is a Squad-based game, it is quite reasonable to measure the combat capability of the squad based its total weapon BR, rather than basing on individual weapons.
More people should see this idea and make Darkflow consider about it. This system will be much more scientific than the BR system proposed by Darkflow now, and if the game is imbalanced, we can adjust the BR of the weapon to affect the player’s squad formation. Balancing the game under this system will be more feasible.
6 Likes
I dont, the other already did before me and i think write the same thing is useless so im limit myself to say, neither if the pig learn to flight something like this is adopted in enlisted is a 180° opposite to what the dev are doing now
2 Likes
I think such comments are inappropriate for an official.
This is entirely my independent suggestion and I’m glad other players have similar thoughts
Of course I want to end this off-topic argument. I will stop arguing about this direction here
5 Likes
Im still a player i can say if i like a suggestion or not
2 Likes
Not meaning to go off your topic, just another way of gating decks. Are you familiar with steel division 2s way of building a deck?
In just arranging your deck you have 50 points, more powerful stuff costs more, multiples of one class increases point cost etc etc.
I had wondered what that converted to enlisted would look like.
I get the idea of deck average, and i used to like it in warthunder…but they removed it because of what we did to it…doctoring the deck to downtier super powerful heavy tanks lolol
3 Likes
The thing that really confuses me is, do you guys think this is fair?
He is just a mirror image. This is a total contradiction.
Of course this is just a suggestion and he won’t change anything.
I think it is logical to assign 8x 98k + 1xg43, and 8x fg42-2 + 1x g43 to different ratings.
It’s incredible to arrange them together.
Such a combination has the to participate in his fair game and not abuse it.
For simple best weapons combat, you can’t really pull off a combo like this.
The so called unfair scenarios that describe will 100% occur in vanilla BR. I don’t see how they constitute valid negative examples.
The cumulative rating system described by the OP solves this problem.
It all depends on the weapon’s score design, if you think a weapon is really powerful you can set its score higher so it has a higher BR.
It depends on the gradient of the numbers. If the problem you describe is real, doesn’t vanilla BR have this problem?
3 Likes
As many people mention, the system is easy to abuse and people would just try hard to smuggle ARs and SFs as low as possible. Not for the sake of historical accuracy but just to face easier opposittion.
Map mm was probably better in middle ground between fair matches and historical accuracy on paper but devs made it so unpolished it was a meme.
6 Likes
I think setting a certain gradient is possible and it may also works with vanilla War Thunder BR.
This is not the only way to calculate it, it doesn’t have to be an average, I think there may be better variations
2 Likes
such ratings are open to abuse. lets say you want to play Tiger II(H) and equip it with 3 squads full of kar98k. what will the BR be? or what if it is opposite where you equip pz2c with 3 squads of stg44 combined with kar98k?
e.g. KT is 1000 points and kar98k is 3x100 points. average is 325 points. how will low/mid tier player face KT?
also there is open area for abuse in taking 1 stg44 and 8 kar98k where you could easily just pickup that stg44 and use it again and again if you have ammo box, while enemy will be mostly be using BA rifles or weak semi auto carbines.
i have just taken breda PG (carcano) into tunisia and it is OP considering most opposition has BA rifles. i only have 4 rifles and it is easy to get loads of kills with it…
1 Like
Yes, but it’s not abuse.
The differentiated scenario you describe is exactly the problem that the system described by the OP is trying to solve.
Unless you think 1 tiger + 4 fg42, and 1 tiger + 4 98k complate in same match is fair.
But as an almost identical example of differentiation, you might adopt another evaluation criterion
If you think that a team with only 1 fg42 and a team with 9 fg42 playing together is a fair thing.
Then just enjoy this kind of game, that’s how vanilla BR is work anyway.
I don’t mind at all.
The average score may not be the best way to calculate it, and you can calculate better results through other mathematical methods.
2 Likes
isn’t that the point of customs though?
you will bring whatever you want and you will face whatever other people wants.
because being honest, there is no way this mathematical system will not be abused.
you can’t escape it despite the best intention.
1 Like
Yes. Personally, I think BR itself is not a very good form.
But that doesn’t mean there are no restrictions in free choices spaces for palyers. (Of course, for vehicles, the spawnCost system similar to mecha mode is better, it fundamentally prohibits spam) I have discussed related topics with you. These are not the subject of this article.
This suggestion just provides another form of BR implementation. (Its for BR not about spawn cost)
But as far as rating is used to guide players to conditionally set up their squads and participate in relatively fair competition, I think it is relatively good.
Yes, the player can carry a Tiger tank, but his infantry squad is more fragile and his opponent has a more average selection of weapons and equipment to fight against at the same rating level, which I think is fair.
The thing that really confuses me is the so called abuse scenario you guys describe, this will happens 100% in vanilla BR, 9 fg42s with only 1 fg42 newbie players, you guys take it for granted.
The example itself is the problem the OP is trying to address, and if they accept the imbalance then the example has no basis for rebuttal
Yes, maybe it’s unfair for 1 fg42+8 98k to face 4 pps43 + 2 svt? (maybe avenage rating BR described in OP )
So is it fair that 9 fg42s pinch a rookie with only 1 fg42? (vanilla BR)
4 Likes
yes it is if it allows you to bring e.g. KT in a match where they can be invulnerable to all weapons except planes.
do you think that KT + 3 98k squads is fair in a match with t-34 (1941) + 3 t3 BA squads? which of the 2 situations is worse?
you could have weighted average, but it would still be open to abuse. e.g. KT(H) is frontally basically invulnerable to all tanks besides IS2. there would be many other combinations that are simply OP and prone to abuse.
This is why the above suggestions provide scenarios.
Why do you go on and on about what you call an abusive concept?
You just need to think, in the so-called most advanced weapon calculation BR, are the combinations that each player can choose fair?
Maybe, you don’t like 3 98k+1 Tiger King, go to Kursk to face the t34+svt+dp light machine gun.
If you think vanilla BR is good, then you don’t have to worry, this scenario will never happen with vanilla BR
Nothing will change maybe
2 Likes
cause once that player gets into tiger he is basically invulnerable and can kill enemy infantry and vehicles with impunity. only counter to him is planes cause at that tier AT guns dont work, AT rifles dont work, most of the AT launchers dont work, not to mention tanks that cant pen frontally and even some cant pen from sides. also explosive packs are much less effective against KT.
this is basically normandy all over again with stuart vs tiger and m9 bazooka vs tiger and AT gun vs tiger. at least on normandy explosive packs worked if enemy tiger was stupid enough to come out of gray zone.