In my opinion, the way I have seen you approach the bots from the first time I played Enlisted feels completely wrong. From my observation, trying to make the bots smarter and more aware of their surroundings, more able to assess threats, overall more intelligent. I believe you should be using a different approach.
I think you should be looking at the squads mode as more of a microcosm of a larger RTS where you as the player are in first person and only have control over a single squad. Of course you still have to give the bots the ability to perform basic functions (some of those have been mentioned in the forum already), but I think one of the biggest problems is the player’s lack of control over their squad.
I’ll elaborate a little on some of the features I would like to see to make this system work.
Click drag bot placement system. The only point of reference I have for this is Company of Heroes 2, but I’m sure it’s prevalent in many games within the RTS genre. Allow us to click and hold a button to create a path where bots can line up on. I might add a photo in the future if it’s not clear what I mean by this, but I think most RTS players will get what I’m talking about.
Hold Position Command. This would be an infinitely useful command for bots if you start getting shot at when crossing some alleyway and want you’re bots to quickly stay where they are.
Build and Destroy Command. We really need the ability to tell bots to build and destroy buildable objects. This is pretty Straightforward and should simply be in the game.
Sped up AI movement. This one gets annoying real quick as you’re playing. The AI seem to consistently have a slower movement speed than the player which means you might start with your squad next to you, but 5 minutes later they are half the way across the map behind you. Simple solution to this would be to give them the same run speed as the player and make it so whenever the player runs the bots do as well. You might give them a slight speed boost as well if they get a certain distance from you. I’ve been informed in the comments here that I’m wrong about this one, so if I am, then my opinion here can be summarized as this: It’s very important that the bots need to be able to keep up with the player.
Cover mechanic. You need to build in a cover system for the bots wherever they are on the map. This might be tedious as you’d have to define all of it manually, but I really think this would help alleviate some of the bunching up. You might even give the player a contextual command change if they point at a wall then it says something like “take cover”.
Individual bot orders. I’m not even fully sold on this one because I fear it might over complicate the game, but sometimes you really do just want to tell one of your squad mates to stay back while the others come with you or vice versa. Maybe f1, f2, f3, f4, e.t.c. commands might work for this.
More player feedback. This is more of a stretch goal and less of a priority, but I think it would really help the player experience. Stuff like when you give an order your player character should really be giving and hand signal and barking orders. You’re squad might respond with a “yes sir” or something along those lines. Hell, I’m sure a lot of people in the community including myself would do voice lines for free (I can do German, English, and french please bro please no scam I swear it).
TLDR I don’t think the bots work properly as of right now, and I think the main remedy to this is giving the player more control over them.
While I too think that more control over the bots would be nice, as in telling them to lay down, take cover and do other specific things, I don’t think their approach is wrong. The bots should be as smart as possible.
More manual control over bots is not the answer. It will only lead to even more abuse and cheesy tactics while providing very little value when used normally.
I agree having more control over the bots would be ideal.
I don’t think they actually run slower though. I think the issue is that as soon as they see an enemy, even if the enemy is 300m away, they aim down sights and then keep walking towards you but with their guns raised, which really slows them down.
Everything with the AI is just inconsistent right now. Of course the bots should be intelligent, but at the same time, they shouldn’t act like aimbots once Enlisted leaves Beta phase. There are too many cases where I’m killed or downed in one shot by AI players across the map while simultaneously moving, or they instantly snap to me within a second when I peek out to aim or fire at someone (yes I can usually tell when it’s a bot). In my opinion, the devs should try and collect data on what the average reaction time to kill a player is, and set that rule to apply for bots as well.
I do welcome more options to control bots, however. A lot of these ideas are great and I’d hope to see them in some upcoming updates.
That’s because they don’t. They get stuck on things, shoot when you don’t want them to, refuse to follow the same path as the player, etc. Their running speed is the same, though. Many other of his points here are based on incomplete understanding as well.
I’m wondering, what else do I have an incomplete understanding of?
I’m also kind of wondering, what do you mean by this?
Interesting, I’ll have to test this again, though I was almost certain they did. If this is the case and you are correct, then I’ll simply alter that part of my criticism.
Essentially, my criticism boils down to that I don’t think the bots work properly as of right now, and I think the main remedy to this is giving the player more control over them.
I mean that given more direct control over bots, players won’t start enacting smart and interesting tactics with them. Instead they’ll be hiding them in most annoying spots all over the map to quick-swap or respawn onto them in the most annoying way possible.
I don’t think you read my suggestions. No where did I say that the cancel command range should be changed. That’s a feature I can get behind to stop what you mentioned from happening. Players should be forced to stick with their squad.
People are already doing what I’ve described, despite the command range being present. For example, there’s a way to be present on two cap points at the same time by swapping from body to body. Only they are also limited by lack of precise manual control.
The answer is not more control, bots should contextually understand what is expected of them in any situation. It isn’t even something incredibly advanced, bots were already capable of doing some 15 years ago.
I guess we just fundamentally disagree about what the game should be. To me, if everything is just automated and contextual, then what’s the point of having the bots there in the first place? Without player input, what exactly is the point of having them there at all? A backdrop? Padding out the playercount? Pardon my bluntness, but what you’re asking for is a cutscene in first person. If we can’t control the bots then I would prefer to just play against real players. And just to be clear, building in contextual commands for the hundreds of different scenarios in a multiplayer game is far more difficult than just telling the player to use his noggin and figure it out himself.
Again, I don’t quite follow, this is impossible with the current system unless the 2 points are unusually close together. If you’re really worried about this, make it so all squad members have to be on a point in order to cap it, plain and simple.
We’ll agree to disagree then. I actually don’t think there’s a point to bots at all. According to developers, though, it’s to make battles massive.
I don’t think it works and I don’t think it can ever work with their level of expertise / dedication. Players just hide bots to use as mobile spawn points. And when they don’t it’s even more immersion breaking because of bot behavior.
Not impossible. Send bots to attack one point and go to another point yourself. The ones you sent to the point will stay there no matter how far it is (it’s the only situation where command range doesn’t matter). When you swap back to the main group, you change the attack order to that other point you were at with another bot to make sure he stays there.
I’m not worried just about this particular case or any other one case. It was just an example. I’m worried that abuse of game mechanics will always be the most effective way of using bots. Because smart tactics don’t produce results with automated bodies.
A win is a win, but cheesy tactics destroy immersion which is a very important thing for a serious game about historic events. Thus I’d rather limit players’ ability to cheese even if it takes away some control.
As I’ve already said, agree to disagree. It’s not like developers have to listen to either of us.
I don’t think we need to micromanage them, but a few slightly more specific orders than we have now would be nice.
The 2 that I see as both most badly-needed and the easiest to implement:
Get down - causes all bots to go prone until you cancel orders
Keep moving - stops bots from aggroing and instead prioritizes following the player for 10 seconds or until the player fires. This would be a godsend for getting across a street
Yeah street crossing and field crossing ( which realistically is the most dangerous ) almost always ends with AI being mowed down.
Pretty much 90% of my gameplay is this:
A)Soloing because my squad is all dead .
B) Soloing until I die to quick swap to my squad member.
Essentially all they are is mobile spawn points…that sometimes shoot back. If this is their niche… they realllllyyyyyy need to figure it the hell out. Like…priority.
i do agree that bots are more than what people thinks ( especially more than just spawns )
and we do need more command, spacing and more danger awareness for them.
each update, they are becoming better and better. just yesterday, my hans managed to kill 4 american soldiers when my other squad mate was reviving me up.
i’m sure it’s just a matter of time.
although we have to wait for the Closed beta roadmap feature to go live. becase as there’s written:
so we can hope for the best
( Taken from: Cbt roadmap )
yeah but right now they are mobile spawn and nothing else get into a house with your smg be lucky to kill the main player then proceed to mow down his 6 units with ease but try to snipe a bot all 6 of them shoot you from some godforsaken distance …i mean they one tap you lol my poor sniper
Exactly. Saying they are not mobile spawns right now is just flat out denial lol. Thats literally all they are. That and easy kills for other players. Games like Insurgency Sandstorm have phenomenal AI. That AI will wreck you if you’re not careful. Hell, ARMA even . Able to patrol. Drive vics. Call artillery .
So it is possible. Devs just need someone who is good at that programming .
