I agree! The shells are disgusting, you have to shoot several times at an enemy tank with very poor armor, this definitely needs to be improved.
Because the 50mm plate on a F2 is so much better? How often do you struggle to pen that?
Even BR 1 tanks can do that reliably so idk what here is so much diffrent to the the chaffee.
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The maps are rather compact, and tanks on both sides feature thin armor. A single hit can either immobilize the vehicle or destroy it outright, leaving little room for mistakes. Therefore, there is no need to keep debating the balance of the Panzer IV F2 with its 50mm rear armor
Besides, Soviet vehicles like the T-28 and BT-7 already have access to APHE shells capable of penetrating German tanks, and they do not break matchmaking balance.
Considering the small map sizes, thin armor on all vehicles, and how any hit can immobilize or destroy tanks with little room for error, there is no need to keep fixating on the Panzer IV F2 and its 50 mm rear hull plating.
F2 has 50mm frontal armor is what he means, but yeah, M61 would give Chaffee roughly 100mm of penetration, germany’s Panzer IV E and F1 have 80mm of penetration with HEAT at the same BR so it seems fair to me that the chaffee gets the M61 shell.
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The HEAT round has less post pen damage than M61. Moreover, 80mm of penetration is not sufficient to pen the hull armor of some BR3 US and USSR tank like T-34 and M4A2.
While the M61 shell is able to pen the hull and turret armor of all br3 German and Japan tank from the front.
This is true, but that 75mm HEAT can be fired like every 3 seconds isn’t it? I think giving M61 to only M8A1 and M24 which has more than double the reload time sounds fair to me. They aren’t exactly well armored like some of the other BR 2 tanks either so.
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What about the M3 Lee and Grant? They have no main gun in the turret; their primary 75 mm cannon is fixed inside the hull sponson. Worse still, the gun mantlet for this 75 mm gun is extremely weakly armored.
You barely see these tanks in matches nowadays, since they are far too underpowered. The main gun only has limited horizontal traverse, forcing you to turn the whole vehicle to track targets. The vulnerable mantlet on the front is an obvious weak point. Loaded with so many drawbacks, they are unpopular compared to other tanks at the same BR.
A good compromise could be taking the F2 to BR II, having its reload speed be more in line with M24 and M8A1, it only has 50mm of frontal armor after all which is what we often find in BR II in the form of the F1, Pz III J1, Ho-I, and Lee. That way you’re trading the ability to HE the enemy more often for the ability to punch above your BR without completely butchering your HE performance or condemning you to a turretless shitcase that doesn’t even have an MG. Much like M61 would allow these options for USA to punch above their BR, granted that’s assuming Lee is also getting the M61 since M8A1 and M24 are premium and therefore less commonly found. Could have the F2’s reload speed nerfed to 7s in contrast to Chaffee’s 6.5s
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I excluded M3 Lee/Grant because they have very fast reload speed(possibly the fastest reload speed out of all US 75mm gun variants in the game with 4.8 secs), 37mm can still works fine against enemy tanks on BR 1-2 or even BR 3(japanese & german tanks in this BR all have paper thin armor), the armor is actually working against enemy BR 1 tanks and possibly some of BR 2 tanks it would faces. While the gun is awkwardly positioned, it can work well regardless as long as you don’t mind switching between 37mm and 75mm a lot in the game.
Yeah, let’s make Stug F totally meaningless all over the again.
No, there’s no need for it.
Chaffee has pretty slow turret rotation speed and gun elevation speed compared to BR2 German tanks. Plus it has much slower reload speed.
M3 has lower placed gun that’s get obstructed quite often random by random nonsense. It has to expose itself completely in order to fire. Meanwhile, German tanks can hide behind random rubble or the wrecks of other tanks.
Just add explosive filler to all BR2 American tanks. It won’t screw with balance. Quite the opposite.
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You’re absolutely right. The Panzer IV F2 has basically faded out of the current meta. To some extent, the Panzer IV H and J with 80 mm frontal armor have fully occupied the medium tank niche, leaving little room for the F2 to compete.
Following this line of reasoning, many vehicles currently at BR2 deserve a downtier to BR1. That includes open-topped turretless tank destroyers armed with 75 mm guns such as the Marder series. This would be a massive balance overhaul, yet the logic behind it makes perfect sense.
What’s more, the game does not have a BR6 bracket yet. A great number of late-war heavy tanks lack a proper matchmaking tier, and all top-tier hardware is crammed into BR2. which further squeezes the viability of vehicles in lower and middle battle ratings.
Always has been. I was never a fan of TDs in this type of game and will never be. I kept taking the F1 once Stug got downtiered and I’ll keep it on the lineup unless a better tank option presents itself. Ain’t like every single piece of equipment in the TT needs to have a place, we got plenty of redundant stuff
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F2 got phased out this is true but i don’t think that’s a good idea mainly because it would make Stug and Marders utterly useless which both vehicles already compromised armor and working turret to be in BR 2 with that powerful gun. Yes even with nerfed reload speed. On a more realistic note, the enisted devs never have done something like that so far(that nerf the reload speed of a vehicle artificially in order to bring down their BR).
I think someone once pointed out the Meteor doesn’t really have the same flying performance as it does in WT, take it with a grain of salt since I don’t play WT and I’m not that invested on flying unless it’s to shoot down a pesky plane or handle a grey-zoning tank. Hence I reckon a similar tweak could be done for tanks albeit in a more limited manner. Much like changing the reload speed of a gun, “it’s just your soldier taking his sweet time with the magazine”. But fair enough. Thinking about it even if they give Lee M61 shells most people will still prefer the Scott since it reloads a bit faster
Small maps make most TDs unviable. Turreted tanks are always a better pick when squad slots are limited. Vehicles like Dicker Max, SU-76 and StuG III G remain on sale even with major weaknesses: no turret, no hull MG, awkward gun handling. They should shift to the tech tree and be removed from the shop. Only Omaha Beach and Tunisia have terrain that somewhat suits TDs; elsewhere infantry can easily rush and destroy them
If you want to talk about reload speed, the Chi Nu 2 on br 3 has the same reload speed. Should it be lower to br2?
I can see what you are trying to do here. Let’s not play this silly game shall we? Chi-nu 2 uses Type 4 Kou APHE shell in Enlisted which means that it has 151mm penetration at 10m with very potent amount of HE filler in that shell. 80.64 grams of TNT equivalent HE filler means that it will almost always one shot kill enemy tank if it penetrates. For comparison, PzGr 39 APCBC from Panzer 4 H has 28.9 grams of TNT equivalent HE fillers in and it’s quite decent at killing tanks isn’t it. Now imagine almost triple more than that. Also Chi-nu 2 is not an open-topped tank unlike M8A1.
You have zero reason to use M8A1 if you have M8 Scott period. I mean why would you even want to use M8A1 when M8 Scott can spam both HE and HEAT(89mm of penetration btw) every ~3 seconds? Is giving M61 to M8A1 sounds too much for you given the context? Same goes for M24. At least it’s not an open-topped vehicle but there are better vehicle that could shoot decently powerful HE shells as well as shooting solid AP shots much faster on the same BR 2, it’s called Crusader with 57mm gun. 57mm can be fired every 4 seconds. Again, why would you even want to use M24 which stuck with 6.5 secs reload speed solid shots over Crusader?
M61 shell has 64g of explosive which is also a lot and Chi Nu 2 has less powerful HE round. When did I talk about M8A1? I was replying the post that is talking about Chaffee.
Yea uh, because I was literally talking about both M24 and M8A1 in that reply and you replied to that exact reply?
Chi-Nu 2 has less powerful HE round than Sherman 75mm but you conveniently left out the penetration value for their AP shells. Are we going to compare that or not? Also while Chi-Nu 2’s HE weaker than that of Sherman 75mm(This is nothing special. 75mm guns with relatively shorter barrel tends to have more powerful HE shells than that of long barreled ones)but it is much stronger than that of US 76mm HE shells which in statwise Chi-Nu 2’s gun should be compared to US 76mm rather than 75mm and last i checked, all Sherman with 76mm gun were on at least BR 4 and only TD with either paper thin armor or with abysmal turret traverse speed were on BR 3. Like, bring Chi-Nu 2 out of all tanks out there into this conversation for making reload speed argument is rather… mismatch i think.
Also you still haven’t answered my question which giving out M61 to M24 and M8A1 with 6.5/6.7 secs reload time would really make things go unbalanced or not. Becuase i think it wouldn’t make things go unblanced at all with their current reload speed and given the context that how they performs overall in the game currently compared to other BR 2 tanks available on the TT.