Anyway, in addition to that mobility aspect, there are other additional advantages in the case of Rifle3.
Considering that, I think 3 is better than 2 in the end.
Even considering the uptime of 2x run+ jump height about equalizes when compared to sprint + run speed the moment you have a singular obstacle during 40 seconds of sprinting. And then you also have to consider that double run speed affects you while not sprinting but I don’t personally count that because flask exists.
The issue is that one costs you 8 points while the other costs you 19. The other 10 points can be used for crouching movement speed and crouch speed which translate to better gunfights and some extra points for quicker vaults if you need to clear an obstacle anyways
Hell, I doubt the 1 weapon perk for 0.5% reduction is better than quicker crouching. Only thing is that stamina Regen is decent (on the side note, health Regen is mega ass. At max level it’s +3 extra health regenerated and it doesn’t scale with vitality. It wouldn’t even save you from SMG damage) but that’s about it
I highly recommend trying out the double run builds because I was sprint speed believer for the longest time and only recently changed my playstyle due to a recommendation and the difference is immaculate
Fact: Reload speed gives you miniscule benefits
Another fact: it’s still vastly better than most other handling tree perks
Your ‘logic’, ‘evidence’ and ‘facts’ are anecdotal at best - that’s the point of discussion. Not to mention that ‘but what if I need to build 6 rally points sometimes instead of of 4?’ while stamina is useful 100% of the time is not great example of ‘maths’ or ‘facts’
Well, first of all, not at all for me.
For people like me who do Run & Gun, the fastest movement speed is the most important thing, and I hate hiring only Run Perk because it’s very slow.
At the very least, Sprint + Run must exist to achieve satisfactory speeds.
It’s my result after I’ve already experienced everything.
Why not only sprint on Rifleman IIs then tho? It’s 2 points to put somewhere else and the increase of rifleman IIIs is only 0.42%, or less than 1 extra meter traveled for 200m jog
You can get jump height for it at a cost of 33% stamina (iirc you need to invest into tier I vitality perks to unlock the rest of the tree) and you can always buy a flask
FACT: You’re living in fantasyland and believe in hobbits & magic potions.
This is because even the time to drink water is a waste.
If sprint right away, can reach it without stopping
Do I have to drink it?
When I drink water, it is possible without drinking except for a situation in which I have to move to the next base after the current base (Double Range) and a situation in which I have to make a non-stop detour by guerrilla to penetrate the enemy’s gray zone.
You really need to stop using big words that you don’t understand. Let me explain: Let’s say you’re using an mp40. It’s reload speed is 2.1 seconds. If you have reload speed maxed out at 12%, the basic math on the time you save reloading is 2.1 x .12 = .25 seconds, or (for those people who like fractions) 1/4 of one second. Do you really believe that 1/4 of 1 second is going to do anything to help you survive when reloading your gun?
Now, you also seem to believe that you can “accumulate” some sort of savings of time if you reload your weapon multiple times. Let’s say you reload your weapon 12 times with this perk maxed out. Sorry, but we need to do more math here: that’s .25 x 12 = 3. That’s 3 seconds. What exactly are you going to do with 3 seconds in a video game? Save it for later? Oh wait, as soon as you die and have to respawn AND START ALL OVER AGAIN, you just lost your 3 seconds. There’s another way you lose your 3 seconds: You hesitate for just 3 seconds before leaving from the cap point you just capped to go to the next cap point. POOF! It’s gone, forever into the void of the digital realm. And you get all of this for the low low price of 8 perk points.
Now I know the math here is probably more advanced than you’re used to; however, it’s NOT—let me repeat that just so you get it—it’s NOT anecdotal.
So, for your own safety, I highly suggest that you purchase a heavy duty bicycle helmet—find one that’s made out of titanium, if possible – and this is the important part: Make sure you purchase two, not one, but two chin straps because you need to make sure that thing doesn’t fall off. You can’t afford to lose any more brain cells; if you do, you could be sipping your food through a straw for the rest of your life. And that, my friend, is no way to spend the .25 seconds that you saved with the reload perk. 
Oh yeah sorry - lemme use that 8 points to buy checks notes weapon changing speed so that I can make use of it essentially never
You really missed me saying that the other perks in that tree are really REALLY not useful enough to justify takin them like 3 or 4 times
I specifically said, on multiple occasions, that I KNOW that the reload speed doesn’t have that much of an impact. The increase is miniscule and not always are you even in a situation where you need to reload during an active gunfight. However my main talking point is that even if it’s 0.25s at 70% uptime, it’s more worth it to take it over other things
That’s my entire point and I mentioned it mutiple times yet you somehow fail to even acknowledge this and instead choose to be pretentious, insufferable asshole
Head full of tungsten
I mean it applies when you get to run a 133% stamina range jog and face not a singular obstacle along the way - so it’s actually a thing to think over (especially since vaulting and jumping take stamina as well and can tank it heavily)
I guess you could say it’s campaign dependant but even the Japanese now have urban maps where jump height to clear windows without vaulting is extremely useful. I guess Tunisia doesn’t really need those but Berlin, Moscov, Stalingrad and Normandy all benefit quite a bit from it
If I were you I’d weave in a riflemane II into a squad and see if I can notice a difference. As I said I used to run speed only and switching to my current setup I’ve noticed incredible difference in my overall mobility while I barely notice a difference in speed
I’m still debating whether I should take sprint + run on assaulters tho. They are great to rush points, and the speed difference is more noticable (due to rifleman IIs having passive sprint speed and Assaulters not) but at the same time I notice much better quality of gunfights when using double run setup
To be honest, it’s fully possible on all maps.
Low hurdles are meaningless because they can jump without parkour with just a basic jump, and frankly it’s usually where there are no obstacles.
Honestly, the reason why it doesn’t matter to cross a window is that you just have to jump over a window cross without parkour.
You probably think it’s a problem to play parkour, but just jump so that don’t play parkour, that’s all.
Also, taking care of both Stamina recovery speed and Stamina +33% is very good for both long term and single short term.
Rifle 2, which can’t do this, is definitely not good.
Of course, the only thing don’t need this is Radio Man 2. (Because Run 2 + Sprint is most stamina efficiently)
And the efficiency of the stamina increases as much as the fast movement speed. (Because the stamina consumption is simply defined by weight.)
I will still use rifle 3 rather than rifle 2.
I also used rifle 2 in the past, so I know it well.
Actually, I’ve also used a rifle 2 with 22 stats (Run 2 + Sprint), which was more horrible(OP) than normal rifle 3 so I’m familiar with it (of course it’s gone now, For certain countries, it was an advantage that Gacha did not exist because of the ban on Gacha.)
The faster move, the more tricks can do, but… well, I’ll stop here.
I’m sure I don’t think you’re going to make much progress on this.
I hope you recognize that travel speed is the most important thing for me in the end.
If that doesn’t work, I don’t need it.
The most important thing in the game is full time, and it’s best to reduce this the most in the end, but my result is that rifle 3 is better in the end.
Iirc a lot of windows are not possible to jump over without vaulting on base jump height, but you can with at least 1 point in jump height. And even then when there are obstacles that you still vault with jump height, you decrease the time to vault by jumping higher up and reducing your pull up time
I get it that speed is most important - my argument is that most maps have obstacles that you clear much faster with extra jump height and therefore outweigh the extra stamina (because I don’t count in 0.4% speed increase as meaningful) since as you said - speed is most important
But you do you - I’m not here to force you out of it
This is because the low figure is not as low as it seems.
This is because the moving speed consists of at least three mul operations.
If it’s a sum operation, it’s true that it’s small because it’s as honest as that number, but if it’s a mul operation, it’s meaningful.
I found out recently because I checked the actual movement calculation formula myself.
In the past, I thought it was a sum operation, but it turned out to be a mul operation.
At first, I checked the formula myself to find out why Sprint was 16 cost, and after checking that it was a mul operation, I found out why it was worth 16 cost.
I checked past posts to show you the video, and anyway, this was possible if the move speed was fast.
I know it’s multiplicative
I brought the 0.4% speed increase directly from your calculation:
Speed of R3 / Speed of R2 with sprint = 8.5918/8.5560 = 1.004184 (all rounded slightly)
It’s 0.4% speed increase for 118.75% the cost (19/16 points)
And if your case is that speed is everything - saving whole seconds on not having to vault certain obstacles by getting jump height would be much more beneficial than having 33% more stamina imo - that’s my whole point this entire conversation
I’m myself still sticking to run speed on Rifleman 2s because I don’t believe even the 5% speed increase on Rifleman 3s is worth giving up jump, vaults and gunfighting perks, because if you have capture points 250m away from you - that’s only 1.5s difference to reach it - and I sure as hell know I’m more often fighting urban scenarios than having to jog for 250m straight
Can y’all shut up now?
I doubt it.
But in the end, you can say that travel speed is more valuable.
For me, that’s the most important thing, and actually it was more valuable.
But to be clear, I’ve already tried to cut off the conversation in front of it, but if keep talking, I have no choice but to keep talking.
Even the owner of the post doesn’t want this story to continue.
What’s for sure is that the theme of this is never a story that will end in my opinion, it depends on the style of play, and in the end, rather than who’s wrong, it could be right in a way.
But I don’t think my opinion is wrong by any means.
I think it’s probably the same for you.
That’s why I don’t think this topic will end.
???
I literally just explained where the 0.4% came from because you said that it’s not as low as it seems where I pulled it out directly from YOUR OWN calculations
So to wrap everything up I just wanted to present it easily digestible post - where the logic comes from, whats the reasoning and finally why I believe run speed to be better - just because it seemed you didn’t understood or misread my post
And you hit me with this?
I’m not even trying to argue anymore, I wasn’t even arguing in that previous reply. I genuinely feel as if you do not read or simply don’t understand things I’m saying. And not ‘not understand’ as in ‘see why I’m correct’ but in a literal ‘You are reading something completely different from what I’m saying’
You are quite literally saying ‘I doubt it’ when it comes to my understanding of speed calculation, where I didn’t do the speed calculation - I used YOUR values that you posted here YOURSELF sparing me the work of doing so myself because I trust them to be correct
What are you trying to argue here? As I said - I’m done and I was done, even 2 replies ago. But you just keep on saying stuff that just never happened or accusing me of doing bad calculations when I’m using final speed values YOU provided
Is English your not first language perchance?
Well, that’s right.
First of all, English is not the main thing for me.
That’s why I’m not that good.
So maybe it didn’t mean it.
And U mentioned 0.4%, so I thought about the coefficient of Run or Sprint.
Looking at it now, I think you were talking about 0.4m/s, not 0.4%.
0.4m/s is honestly a big fast value, unlike 0.4%.
Explains a lot. No stress tho, not mening any offence
Thats where the figure comes from
As per OP request.