currently damage for fedorov avtomat is taken as cartridge damage from guns with longer barrel even though it has shorter barrel and smaller muzzle velocity/energy. type hei has muzzle velocity of ~770m/s and muzzle energy of ~2600J, while fedorov avtomat has ~660m/s and ~1960J and stg44 has ~1900J.
its muzzle energy is equivalent to stg44 and this is why it should get same damage as stg44 of 9.6.
Or we could buff the other ARs to 13.5-14.1 damage?
well i hate SF meta, but AR shouldnt be buffed SF. i would rather nerf SF with recoil, but people rebelled when devs tried it.
Some people like the fast-paced nature of the existing BR 5 select-fire meta, and want other weapons to be equally viable. ARs that can’t one-shot at medium and long range, but are more controllable and have higher capacity magazines make Assaulter squads a more viable option, instead of just using Rifleman squad spam.
BR decompression would probably help to make everyone happy, and even though it happens frequently in War Thunder, I don’t know if we’ll ever see such weapons in a BR 6.
i would like to make assaulters better option than riflemen, but this is not premise of the topic. i want to put fedorov in line with rest of AR and if there is later buff to all AR then it can get buff. currently there is absolutely no reason as to why it should have 45% more damage over stg44.
if fedorov retains its cartridge damage, then MG-s should also get their full cartridge damage and not be artificially limited by their class.
I think we agree on the comparative strength of ARs to other weapons, but disagree on TTK balance.
If all ARs deal less than 10 damage, SFs in their current state are uncontested. Fedorov and Scotti Naval Assaulters are the only real options to bring that aren’t a complete “throw” in competitive spaces.
Also, Type Hei’s muzzle velocity in testing was 718-745m/s, resulting in a muzzle energy of 2321-2498J:
Velocities are in the 9th to 11th columns:
Multiple 6.5 cartridges guns have same muzzle velocity as Fedorov Avtomat for some reason.
M91 Carcano should have 710-730m/s, it’s derivatives should be close.
M93 Mannlicher should be above 730 as well (it also wrongly uses 6.5x52 instead of 6.5x53R).
Weird cases like Hino rifle or Armaguerra or Scotti are hard to find data on, but I really doubt they are magically close to Fedorov in velocity as well.
i meant type 30, but wrote type hei. doesnt matter cause both have higher muzzle velocity than fedorov. also they are in line with SA/SF damage with their >13.5 damage.
let’s assume that Fedorov’s machine gun in our game fires a special improved ballistic cartridge developed by Fedorov, which produces 3100 J of energy per shot
so we are in make believe territory now? can you at least have serious response as to why fedorov avtomat shouldnt have same damage as stg44? would you be ok for stg44 to be buffed to 13.9 damage?
No, the Fedorov isn’t a true assault rifle and fires a full power cartridge. Why should it have the same damage as intermediate calibers?
I think it should be reclassified into a SF rifle and not an assault rifle, so it would be like a soviet version of the Type Hei Automatic
it fires it from short barrel generating much less force(~1960J) which is in line with stg44. also 6.5 arisaka is closer to intermediate cartridge than full rifle cartridge. it generates muzzle energy of ~2600J, while 7.92 mauser generates ~4000J.
i dont see a reason why it should go to SF, when its muzzle energy is basically same as intermediate cartridge. japan doesnt have other alternatives, so i dont mind it for them, but soviets do have it. also what is barrel length of type hei AR? is it longer than fedorov?
13.4 damage will already make FA much more fair, because it will remove the unbalanced one-shot.
if you’re serious, you can try to calculate how much kinetic energy a bullet of different calibers, fired from different weapons at an equal distance (let’s say 50 meters), transfers.
I asked a neural network about this, and here’s what it told me:
1840 at 50 meters for Fedorov’s assault rifle
2530 for the Arisaka rifle (I didn’t ask her specifically about the Type Hei automatic rifle because I’m afraid she wouldn’t know the answer)
1660 for the STG 44
1075 for the M2 carbine
As a result, we can assume that the damage of the weapons should be approximately as follows: Automatic Hei>Fedorov >STG 44>M2 carbine so given that the STG 44 has a damage of 9.6. then at least the damage should be 10.6 at a distance of 50 meters (by the way, what do we have at the same distance?)
One-shot and near-0.00 TTK can be balanced, because we have other factors to consider:
A select-fire can be balanced if Assault Rifles can also one-tap at close-to-mid range, are more controllable and have larger magazines, SMGs two-tap at close range, have very large magazines and rates of fire, and MGs one-tap with high volume-of-fire but have limited movement speed and reaction time. It’s just an overall different gameplay pace than what’s offered outside of the select-fire meta.
Does it appeal to everyone? No, but it shouldn’t anyways. The ideal would be Enlisted appealing to players who prefer different levels of gameplay pace, enough so that the population is large enough to eventually allow for +0/-0 matchmaking.
kinetic energy is just an argument cause they justified buffing fedorov damage with cartridge damage which is full rifle cartridge.
game has obvious class damage function and fedorov(and scotti) are outliers to this.
with same cartridge BA rifles deal ~25 damage, SA/SF rifles ~15 damage, MG ~13.1 damage. why does then fedorov have SF damage when it is in AR category with which usually has sub 10 damage?
I mean. We all know why, if we’re being honest.
Here’s my reasoning to solve the problem.
I have no idea why everyone’s obsessed with instantly killing their enemy with full autos in a single hit, It takes the fun out of playing and it also creates a toxic ecosystem within game.
if full auto damage per round is really the issue Then we need to start looking at increasing magazine reserve for every weapon that has lower TTK then the others, This way we can bring the underperformers in line with the others without creating overbalance And frustration. Besides, there are a few weapons I can immediately think of that could benefit from an additional magazine, but none of those are br5.
i think no bc the federov is perfectly fine as it is
