Hello bajtársak and fellow forumdwellers,
The Type 13 is a Mauser style bolt-action rifle of Austrian origin, produced in Manchuria before and during the Japanese occupation.
The rifle´s origin was shrouded by myths for years, two popular theories suggested that the rifle was designed either by Han Linchun or by a Chinese-Japanese cooperation, this seemed credible because the Type 13 shares similarities with both Chinese used Mauser and the Japanese Type 38 rifles. However the design was actually developed by the Austrian Steyr for the Austrian army, the design incorporated numerous improvements gained with war time experience of the First World War, the design was ready for production in 1917 however the Austro-Hungarian Empire would not risk stretching its production line with a new rifle and production was postponed until after the war, but as a losing power, the French imposed impossible and bloodboiling restrictions on Austria with the “treaty” of Saint-Germain-en-Laye which severely restricted firearms production.
With no hope of getting a contract, Steyr sold both the design and the tooling with it to Chinese warlord Zhang Zuolin, Steyr helping setting up the factory in Shenyang which would later become known as Mukden Arsenal.
Thanks to Austrian assistance, these rifles were of world renowned quality, which was unusual from Chinese weapons at that time as most factories could not divert resources from quantity to quality.
Production began in 1924 which was the 13th year of the Chinese republic (began in 1911) hence the Type 13th designation. Production amounted to a total of 140000 rifles between 1924 and 1938, continuing for years even during Japanese occupation until the arsenal switched to producing Japanese rifles in a standardization effort. The Type 13 was chambered in 8mm Mauser however some rifles were found rechambered for 6.5mm Arisaka.
Given that the grand total of BR2 bolt-action rifles in the Japanese tech tree is just one rifle, I believe Japanese faction could really benefit by adding the Type 13 liao to Japan´s tech tree as a BR2 rifle.
You figured out my intention.
We already have captured KE7 in Japanese TT so the precedent is there.
There is still the type 24 Chiang Kai-Shek rifle which has to be added to Japanese TT and Type I/IV Mauser rifles, the rest are not as bad if they get added.
A standardmodell Mauser rifle in Soviet TT or FN1924 in Allied TT wouldn’t be as bad as a Chinese produced Type 24.
Notably, the same Mukden Arsenal was responsible for converting the 7.9 mm caliber rifles to the Japanese 6.5 mm caliber. The plan was to modify 600 rifles per month. This is detailed in document C01006650400 on JACAR.
And a photo of a Japanese soldier in a breastplate with a Type 13 rifle.
After the war.
Collaborator troops also joined en masse the Communists since Communists were short on manpower and guns so they were more than happy to take in trained and armed soldiers, while Nationalists would kill them on sight.
So yes, the Type 13 Liao once again saw extensive service with Communist China after the war, however during the Second World War and Second Sino-Japanese War, the Type 13 was almost exclusively used by Chinese soldiers under Japanese command, so it would be heavily out place in the Soviet faction regardless of what squad or way its added.
While Liu rifle is in Normandy - everything in Manchuria is quite fine in su - these red chinese guys fight japs all over 1931-1945 so yeah - could be in soviet side
You mean the anti-bandit campaign?
Some of the groups were indeed sponsored by the communist party but most these groups were too deep in territory and too isolated so once they were destroyed -and all were destroyed- any rifle they may have captured fell back into Japanese hands long before WW2.
In subsequent campaigns, Manchurian troops did not see any major combat against Communist Chinese troops.
And by 1945 Manchuria had adopted the 6.5 and 7.7 Arisaka rounds and only their second line troops may have still used Type 13 while the rest were likely rechambered and given to Japanese soldiers or sent to other collaborator armies that were fighting the Nationalists so no, nothing from Manchuria is fine for SU.
LETTER FROM THE COMMANDER OF THE CHINESE 8TH ARMY, ZHU DE,
TO THE COMMANDER OF THE TRANSBAIKAL FRONT,
ON THE DISLOCACTION OF CHINESE TROOPS
Yan’an, September 14, 1945.
To the Commander of the Transbaikal Front,
Marshal of the Soviet Union Comrade Malinovsky.
From your representative, Lieutenant Colonel Comrade. We learned
that the Kuomintang troops and the troops of the 8th People’s Revolutionary Army will be able
to enter Manchuria only after a specially set deadline, after the evacuation
of the Red Army from there.
To meet your wishes, I have ordered individual units
8 HPAs that entered Mukden, Changchun, Dairen, Pingquan and other locations
Manchuria, immediately evacuate from the areas occupied by the Red Army.
After the start of the anti-Japanese war in 1937, parts of the 8th NRA were already operating
in the territory of the province of Zhehe and Liaoning, where they established bases (see
attached diagram*). In this regard, the parts of the 8th NRA operating in the above-mentioned
areas, please leave at the place of their deployment. (They were before and they stay there - Decard)
And in which campaign you will see them since we don’t have Chinese faction ? The Enlisted model dose not support such redistribution of weapons if it was focused more on small factions and early campaigns and pre WW 2 battles would be interesting however Enlisted is focused mainly on mid and late war campaigns and 4 faction model.
Well I think will be far better to limit such squads then continue expanding it. Its far more important to have more guns in the TT then having them as event weapons. Japan has very few options for weapons and the 4 faction model simply is beneficial to bring majority of Chinese equipment in the Japanese TT.
