M4A3 (105) — Move to BR IV, Add M67 HEAT, and Compensate with Reload & Armor

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Preface

I’m going to say something that a lot of people won’t want to hear, and I fully expect this post to collect downvotes from the players who’ve been enjoying this vehicle for a long time. But there’s a hard truth here that the whole community needs to face, and I’m going to lay it out as honestly as I can.
A vehicle with a balanced performance profile and a large-caliber howitzer should not exist as the default “noob-stomper” answer for clubbing lower tiers. That’s not a game, that’s a problem.

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The Problem — 105mm HE at BR II–III Is a Disaster for Infantry

Enlisted is, first and foremost, an infantry-focused FPS. This is the core of my argument, and everything else follows from it. When a large-caliber howitzer tank like the M4A3 105 sits at BR III — able to face BR II–III lobbies — its M1 HE shells don’t need to penetrate armor to win. They overpressure infantry positions, clear objectives from a distance, and delete squads before they can even react.
And here’s the thing we keep forgetting: the silent majority of new players isn’t on this forum. The people posting in these suggestion threads are the veterans who’ve learned to play around it. The actual new player — the one who’s been playing for two weeks, who just unlocked his first BR II squad — is getting blown up by a 105mm HE shell from across the map, and he’s not coming back. Large-caliber howitzer tanks are making this game actively hostile to its own newcomers, and it’s only gotten worse since the KV-2 was added.
We shouldn’t be balancing this game around the handful of regulars who post here. We should be thinking about the players who don’t.

M67 HEAT Exists

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The M4A3 (105) is not historically a HE-only vehicle. It was designed around the 105mm M4 Howitzer, which fired both the M1 HE shell and the M67 HEAT shell. The M67 was a real, mass-produced round — a shaped-charge shell that could penetrate roughly 130mm of armor (historical testing ranged from 130–141mm at 30° out to 2,000m).
In orher words, this tank’s historical ammunition loadout was HEAT + HE, not HE alone. The game’s decision to give it only M1 HE — 59 rounds of nothing but HE — is not a reflection of history; it’s an artifact of how the vehicle was introduced alongside the Japanese Type 97 (short-barreled Chi-Ha), which also shipped HE-only. It was a convenience choice at the time, not a design philosophy.
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Move Up, and Compensate Properly

Here’s my actual proposal, and I want to be clear that this is not a straight nerf. It’s a relocation, with compensation:

  1. Move the M4A3 (105) to BR IV, where its 105mm howitzer faces vehicles that can actually contest it.
  2. Add the M67 HEAT round (130mm penetration), restoring its historical ammunition loadout.
  3. Reduce the reload time — at BR IV, the current leisurely reload of the 105mm howitzer would leave it hopelessly outmatched. A faster reload is a necessary compensation.
  4. Add appliqué armor — historically, M4A3 (105) units did receive additional armor, and at BR IV it would need the survivability to match its new tier.
  5. Increase turret traverse speed — and this one is fully backed by history.
    The turret traverse point deserves its own explanation, because it’s one of those rare cases where the history and the gameplay argument point the same way. The in-game M4A3 (105) uses the HVSS suspension hull — the late-production variant. And according to the production history, the early M4A3 (105)s were built without power traverse on the turret, on the assumption that a howitzer tank wouldn’t need to spin its turret quickly. Frontline units quickly proved that wrong — they regularly had to engage widely separated targets and demanded the traverse be restored.
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The point is: a late-war HVSS M4A3 (105) with its power traverse restored is exactly the vehicle the game is already modeling. Giving it a proper turret rotation speed isn’t a fantasy buff — it’s completing a historical feature that the game’s own model choice implies. And at BR IV, against the tanks it would face there, it would genuinely need it.
The result: a vehicle that’s properly balanced for its tier, historically accurate in its ammunition, and no longer the BR II–III “win button” that’s been strangling new-player retention.

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4. Preemptive Responses — Because I Know What’s Coming

“What about the KV-2?”
The KV-2 is not a valid counter-argument. Its reload time, mobility, and total lack of secondary armament and ammunition variety are precisely what keep it situated at BR III — even if it’s still obnoxious. The KV-2 is a different problem with different constraints. The M4A3 (105), by contrast, is far more mobile, reloads faster, and is simply better as a platform. They are not comparable.
“What about the Dicker Max?”
The Dicker Max has no turret, no meaningful armor, no mobility, and an open-top fighting compartment — and critically, it’s a premium vehicle that will never saturate matches the way the M4A3 (105) and KV-2 do. Its scarcity is part of its balance. Not comparable.
“But in War Thunder, the M4A3 (105) is only BR 3.0!”
This is the argument I refuse to engage with, and here’s why: War Thunder is not Enlisted. In War Thunder, the M4A3 (105)'s opponents are exclusively other vehicles — there are no infantry squads for it to overpressure into oblivion. War Thunder also lacks Enlisted’s assistive information (hit indicators, penetration crosshair, penetration indicators) and features slower reloads. Anyone who tries to import War Thunder’s battle rating into an Enlisted balance discussion is either not arguing in good faith or doesn’t understand that these are two fundamentally different games. We balance Enlisted for Enlisted.

I know this post is going to get downvoted by the people who’ve been having fun with this thing. I get it. But the fact remains: a well-rounded vehicle with a big howitzer shouldn’t be the default answer for stomping lower tiers. Move it to BR IV, give it its historical M67 HEAT, compensate with reload and armor, and let it live where it belongs. The new players — the silent majority we never see on this forum — will be better off for it.

Sources

  • Wikipedia — M4 Sherman（105mm M4 Howitzer history）
  • History of War — Medium Tank M4A3 (105mm Howitzer) — https://historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_medium_tank_M4A3_105.html（M4 howitzer）
  • War Thunder Wiki — M4A3 (105) — https://wiki.warthunder.com/unit/us_m4a3_105_sherman（M67 HEAT 130mm、M1 HE 27mm ）
  • M67 HEAT 130–141mm @30°（Military Classic Vehicles ）
  • Change ammo layout of the M4A3 (105)》(181783)、《M4A3 Sherman 105 to BR 4》(182101)
Do you support moving the M4A3 (105) to BR IV with M67 HEAT, faster reload, and appliqué armor?
  • Yes
  • No
  • I have something more to say.
0 voters
4 Likes
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I think one of the core issue with the M4A3(105) is not even the HE (sure it scales with its reload time and can clear out bunkers, but thats not unqiue to it), but its tough armour that can easily bounce anything below the long 75mm cannons.
Its popular in BR III, because its nearly undestroyable by the average joe in a downtier.

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and would be helpless if uptiered to br5 against kth and ktp and ferdinands

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thats currently true for every howitzer cannon armed tank in an uptier, except for T-28E (because Axis have terrible BR III tanks) and M4A3(105). Thats your “motivation” to bring a tank more balanced tank or buy more squad slots.

But its not like you are forced to confront a tank, on most maps you can avoid fighting other tanks and focus on infantry.

6 Likes
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I think you’re holding this vehicle to a standard that no other BR IV tank is held to
First — the proposal is to move the M4A3 (105) to BR IV, not BR V. Encountering Tiger II, Ferdinand, or Panther is just the result of the ±1 matchmaking spread, which applies to every BR IV vehicle in the game. If “it can’t reliably fight a Tiger II” were a valid reason to reject a BR IV placement, you’d have to reject half the tanks already sitting at BR IV.
the Panther isn’t the problem you’re making it out to be. Between the M1 HE’s overpressure and the M67 HEAT’s 130mm of penetration, the Panther is very much a killable target from the front and through overpressure. It’s the Tiger II and Ferdinand that are genuinely hard targets — and those are BR V heavies that even same-tier tanks struggle with head-on. That’s normal cross-tier pressure, not a flaw specific to the M4A3 (105).

the whole point of moving it up isn’t to turn it into a BR V heavy-killer. It’s to stop it from being a BR II–III infantry blender. The M67 HEAT and the turret traverse and armor compensations are there so it isn’t helpless at BR IV — not so it can duel King Tigers. Those are two completely different goals, and I think you’re conflating them.

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ok and what axis armor br5 can it kill
it will face br5

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The question “which BR V Axis armor can it penetrate” is based on a false premise, so there’s no answer that satisfies it
The M4A3 (105) would be a BR IV vehicle. Its job is not to reliably frontally penetrate BR V heavy tanks — that’s not the job of any BR IV vehicle. You keep asking me to prove a BR IV tank can fight BR V heavies, but that’s a standard you wouldn’t apply to any other tank in the game, and it was never the point of this suggestion.
For the record, though: 130mm of HEAT penetration is enough for the front armor of the Panther; Tiger II (~80mm), and Ferdinand (~80mm)side armor, and M1 HE overpressure works on top/cupola weak points. So “it will be helpless” simply isn’t accurate either.
But that’s beside the point. The proposal is about getting it out of BR II–III, where it’s been farming infantry. If you want to debate whether a BR IV vehicle should be able to frontally duel King Tigers, that’s a different thread entirely. I’ve made my position clear; I’m not going to keep repeating it.

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Im pretty sure it can overpressure even Tiger I and Ho-Ri with a lucky shot, but since its BR III, I never had to try before how effective it is against BR V tanks, though it will probably be just fine with the addition of HEAT shells.
According to Enlisted roll call, it has the 3rd highest kill/sortie of Tech Tree vehicles. Vehicles

2 Likes
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against br 2 3 4 tanks which the tiger 1 is one of
second the armor wont make it a sherman jumbo of protection
there is a difference between being weak against a br and helpless
you said applique armor how much a meaningful amount or tissue paper
that would require more than stat changes but a model refresh to a model that does not exist

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I have no idea what you are talking about anymore.

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this

Plastic Models on the Internet: Walkaround vol.1: M4 Sherman

still not sherman br4 levels of protection
Yeah the 105mm kills br 2 3 tanks real good and a few 4s guess which it kills most of

so again where and how much more armor are you going to add because stock sherman armor does not belong at br4 or 5
we have enough thin skinned tank destroyers without adding a thin skinned slug to br4 5

its a good idea and with 0-+ it be not just workable but a great idea

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Same with the T-34-85, IS-1, Jumbo, and M4A2 76. That’s an issue of BR5 compression, not an accurate reflection of vehicle balancing.

3 Likes
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It can’t do anything consistently to a Tiger II, Ho Ri, or Ferdinand, and it needs some really good aim for Jagdpanzer IVs and Panzer IV/70 (V)s (but how often do you see either of those lets be honest). Every other tank it can face it can consistently one shot.

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my point is
br3 strong against
br4 weak to balanced against
br5 gets stomped by
do you think people would accept that with any other tank

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That’s like 90% of BR4 tanks

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With the applique armor and HEAT shells it will be ok at BR 4 vs other BR 4, it wont be good against BR 5 tanks but it doesn’t need to be when you can use a BR 5 tank. I don’t really like the 105 when it comes down to it I’d rather have the M8 Scott or M 18 Hellcat rather than waste time crawling around in slow Shermans and Churchill’s. The 105mm is cringe HE spam material IMO and should be BR 4. Tanks that offer a risk vs reward rather than mobile grey-zone bunkers are more fun to play and play against. However that being said the HE greyzone tank problem isn’t terminal like some might say there are in game solutions like planes and guerrillas and artillery to a lesser extent. The 105 Sherman has advantages over other vehicles which can HE spam, namely the turret so it can depress the gun unlike the Flackbus and isn’t limited by terrain like a Stug making it easier to play, with some buffs I’m confident it’ll be ok at BR 4.

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It’s a combination of cannon with powerful HE and decent reload speed along with being the most well-protected sherman variant on BR 3 since it’s based on M4A3 chassis. Naturally, it would cause a problem in balance, because normally, when tanks have powerful HE capability then it’s not as well-armored as other tanks on the same BR(Just take a look at the Chi-ha with 120mm gun and KV-2, Sturmpanzer 2). Which isn’t the case for Sherman 105mm we have right now in the game. Given the context that it could even over pressure more heavily armored tanks on BR 4(Tiger 1 H and Panthers are the most common ones i believe), i think it’s fair to move up this tank to BR 4 with an appropriate buff.

3 Likes
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i think is AI

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And what percentage of people can use over pressure I have hit enemy tanks br3 and br 4 and saw my shells bounce like rain drops

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Hit these area with HE, you should be able to kill them in one shot.

1 Like