HMGs on tripods as AA guns can be built by any squad with an engineer.
Proper AA guns (the 20 mm ones) stay as they are, they can only be built by engineer squads and premium/event squads.
Proper HMG nests stay as they are, they can only be built by machine gun squads and premium/event squads.
To avoid seing AA HMGs being used against infantry, they should have very high elevation but poor depression (something like +80° to 0° for example) and HMG nests should have poor elevation but good depression (something like +30° to -30° for example).
Please note that the numbers for the angles of elevation/depression that I gave are just examples I used to illustrate my idea, these might be different in the end if it is ever implemented one day.
I am sorry for the misunderstanding, I always try to explain things a lot, and somethimes it ends up being messy, I’ll try to edit my first post this evening/night to make it clearer.
I think the event was used to test the mechanic of building a MG nest on a ledge among other things, but I found it a bit hard to do personally. I guess they also tested the two-stage ammo rack for tanks. And also, maybe UK tree incoming ??? They have bothered to model a completely new fixed MG, the Vickers, which was used during both world wars, and it feels weird to do all this just for an event ? If it was just a ripoff of the WW1 event from wt, they could have just used the Hotchkiss for the allies and the MG08 for the germans, these are already modeled, because in wt the MG nests were AI targets to destroy, and in enlisted, you can see both MGs inside the tank when you exit the hatch as a tank commander (the Hotchkiss is visible in the Saint-Chamond, and the MG08 in the A7V), so it is very weird to make a whole new model for the Vickers MG just for an event, while two MG models were already ready to be used ???
Yes I’m coping, but man, I just want to hope, lol.
Yeah the prone MG was definitely wonky. Might be really good in some building though. Having the option is sweet.
Would definitely be weird if some of those MGs did not make it into the base game. However it would be consistent if they did not. We’re probably better off that no space based weapons or some pin stripe suit wearing tommy gun squad are not usable in the base game.
But hey the tankgewehr is up for grabs so maybe more stuff will follow.
For the cover, yes, I have said that AA HMGs on tripods shouldn’t have any cover/sandbag walls on them for balancing reasons, and also because it is supposed to be an AA gun, you’re not supposed to use it in firefights against infantry.
For the 360° rotation, I didn’t say it because it appeared obvious to me, but now that you mention it, I will probably add it in an edit in my first post, because an AA gun without 360° degrees rotation severely loses in efficiency, and I want my suggestions to be as clear as possible.
I know it’s possible, I just find it extremely hard. If you don’t shoot the plane face to face, and if you don’t have a powerful weapon with a big magazine, it is nearly impossible.
I have suggested a few days ago to give the machine gunner class the possibility to see the little indicator that indicates you where to shoot when using AA guns or aircraft to shoot down enemy aircraft. You can find it in this topic: Ideas for improving already existing classes
You start off strong… saying you think it’s annoying that when you don’t bring the proper lineups to deal with your own problems.
And because of that… you want to make the same function available to all squads? Because you aren’t being the proper ones?
Simple. If you’re annoyed by planes like a lot of other players then bring an engineer squad… that is the intended effective solution for your means.
Most times I main a plane in a match there will eventually be a player that will just sit on AA to farm me… it is quite annoying constantly focusing on them… those are players who have took their frustrations and executed the proper solution.
And then you… who are i’m guessing just running 3x assaulter complaining that your infantry pushing machines can’t deal with planes effectively… the MG gunner HMG is perfectly capable of doing this… why should snipers be able to build HMGs functionally? Simply because you aren’t bringing the proper lineup?
That is an intended balancing feature… each of the squads have their respective buildable and engineers are the AA and AT… by doing this you are removing one of the main focus of these squads purely for convenience and personal bias… aircraft are not on the same level as you quite literally and thus require methods and proper strategies to take down… it makes very much sense why engi squads are the ones able to build these weapons.
If you want the ability to shoot down an annoying aircraft then carry the proper tools to do so… how big is it of an ask to run an engi squad? Simply having more engis in case one dies is already an advantage… not with the meta?
You can virtually do nothing? Incorrect… many a times i’ve been hit by something as simple as a regular MG round, sniper bolt action or really any small arms which has resulted in a leak that makes me experience as annoying as yours in the grand scheme of things.
And really… i think that’s fair as they are flying and you are on the ground… perhaps this would be more logical if they required points to spawn though.
Initially didn’t read the post but aince were taking personal feelings into account an HMG is atleast when utilized correctly is much more damaging than an AA gun… sure they can shoot further but on an approach you can atleast tank a couple flak rounds… HMGs high caliber combined with extreme fire rate tear you up.
As long as this doesn’t prevent them from adding a normal one for italian mg squad… i had to say.
Hey, I’m not a tryhard with 3 assault squads as you say. If I have a radio squad, an antitank squad and a rifleman squad in battle, then wtf am I even supposed to do against planes ? No need to treat me like shit.
Well that would be the most logical reason why you wouldn’t be running engis… you are already running non meta squads for the most part… just replace with engi… you are trying to create a solution for a problem you are creating… furthermore AA is already annoying enough… just because you’re annoyed you’re not taking the proper squads doesn’t mean pilots should be subjected to more flak harassment.
Replace rifleman with engi squad… AT and radio are already odd pics what’s stopping you from bringing one to solve a problem?
Likewise with my time in the plane… this would open up anti air to every squad like you say… so by virtue same should be done with AT? No! It’s specifically made in such a way to make you take a sacrifice like no 4x assaulter but you can make cool engi structure to deal with problems.
I chose to run meta squads and now im SOL when the plane is annoying… this is something i have accepted and blame myself for not taking an AA… really though letting a player sit in a plane is often more profitable
“there is nothing i can do against planes with AT squad”
I’d like to see that Breda and ZB buildable for the machine gun squad, which unlocks the Breda M30 and the MG13. Overall, the idea is good, but it would also be interesting to have more variety, and for them to be specific to a certain squad level or squad type. For example, HMGs in the AA role, buildable by engineers in Assault or Machine Gun squads; 20mm guns in squads like radio operators and riflemen; and 30mm or larger guns buildable by engineers.
This isn’t unusual, since some buildable structures already vary by squad, for example, the Pak 38 and Pak 40, which are available in different squads; HMGs, which are only available to machine gun squads; and tripod-mounted LMGs, which are only available to engineers.
Id rather they introduce AA tanks and possibly a AA squad with heavy AA guns. This way we’re not seeing players spam AA to take ground targets out since a 20mm AA is a 1 hit kill to body armor with vitality, completely skips the down state because it does over damage which counts against the additional health you would have within the downstate, meaning it instantly kills anyone who isn’t a vehicle and even some BR I vehicles AA guns shred through. The community has already expressed AA guns being used on ground targets as incredibly frustrating and unfair, That’s the exact reason why AA works the way it does now. We already tried doing this and players abused it to an endless extent until the developers put a stop to it.
Too bad we can’t see people pulling off more trick shots, I’ve had quite a few occasions where I’ve taken a plane out as it flew low enough to drop a bomb with a PTRS. People forget that AT weapons and some small arms do an exceptional job at taking planes out, You don’t have to destroy the plane outright. You just have to damage the engines, propellers, or fuel tanks. Eventually, after enough time the person’s forced to bail out of the plane because it’s unable to be used when the engines fail due to lack of fuel or damage.
Historically speaking, AA guns were used as anti-infantry guns when there weren’t any planes to shoot at, like the Maxson turrets, the Bofors, the Flaks… It should be up to the tanks to deal with these guns, a single HE shell destroys them in one hit. The problem is that many tank players are often morons camping in the grey zone who don’t understand that tanks have to push on the enemy positions alongside infantry. I can understand that some open-top tank destroyers aren’t made to fight on the frontline, but something should definitely be done about the “normal” tanks camping at the rear.
Furthermore, in my suggestion, I have mentioned that these AA HMGs should have zero depression, because the gun is already at the soldier’s head, and if he tries to shoot at a negative angle, he would have to be on tiptoe, lol. Sure it could be used against infantry, but the enemy would have to be located on a higher position that the guy using the AA HMG, which is far from being the case everytime you play.
I have also added that there shouldn’t be any sandbags on these AA HMGs, because it should have a 360° rotation, and it is meant to be used at the rear, not on the frontline, because if youre on the frontline with this gun, you’re basically just a big target standing in the open.
I like this idea as long as the AA machine guns are inherently weaker than MG nests against infantry. Limit their ammo to 50 round MGs with slow fire rates but with the AA lead indicator (maybe even limiting gun depression to +2), and they’ll make a nice addition!
I know that there are different types of ammo for these guns : just take a look at the different ammo types in wt on vehicles that have these HMGs as their main armament.
For example, the HMG nests could use AP rounds, which are better against infantry, while the AA HMGs could use incendiary rounds, which are better against aircraft.
The mag size could also be a limiting factor : for example, the DShK has a 50 round box “mag” so you empty this thing really fast, but you could have 3 spare mags for this gun before having to resupply the gun, and also a fast reload time. While the M2 Browning has a 200 round box “mag”, so it could be all the ammo in the gun before having to resupply it, and obviously a slower reload speed. For the other HMGs simply using belts, it could be like : 100 rounds loaded in the gun and one spare 100 rounds belt before having to resupply the gun, with an “average” reload speed.
The fastest AA HMG reload would be for the Type 93 with a 30 round box mag, with 5-6 spare mags before resupplying the gun.
I find the overheating mechanic for MGs in general in the game to be very frustrating and unrealistic, I would really prefer to have to reload the MG instead of having to wait until it cools down. The most unrealistic part about this is the fact that the overheating mechanic is also applied to the tank MGs, and the british cruiser tanks have this MG as their coaxial armament, but it also has this overheating mechanic, which is completely inaccurate to say the least, because you probably already know that tests on the Vickers gun proved it could fire non-stop for EXTREMELY long periods of time.
True. I am not against MG nests having infinite ammo, but having to reload it instead of overheating would be much better. And having an assistant/loader that allows you to reload the fixed MG faster would be perfect, and this assistant mechanic could also be included for the machine gunner class when mounting the your LMG somewhere. We could also apply this mechanic to rocket lauchers and AT rifles too.
Helldivers is able to make this mechanic work, I don’t see why enlisted couldn’t do the same.
I have edited my first post to add the link to a historical handbook of the Vickers Class D and some pics from this handbook. I includes data and informations about the single and twin mounts of the Vickers Class D. The one I am talking about in this topic is the “Mobile Tripod Mounting”. Go check it out, it’s very intersting ! Link to the handbook : https://www.patreon.com/posts/vickers-12-7mm-0-69437456
