BAR 1918 for BR 2 and new BAR 1918a2 early for BR 3

[LBE_Chapa火红的萨日朗]

This is a combined suggestion which combines a recent proposal by @Slakrrrrrr, and many people desire to have the BAR moved to br 2 as well.

Previous suggestions to have the BAR 1918 moved to BR 2 have been archived.

The topic proposing the BAR 1918a2 is here: Browning M1918A2 Early: A BR 2 BAR?

The proposer originally wanted this gun to go into BR 2. But imo, it doesn’t quite make much sense, given that a few things (probably) need to be nerfed: ADS, reload, sprint reduction, recoil, dispersion, and dispersion penalty on the move.

The m1918a2 early has a bipod, which makes it nose heavy: it makes sense for it to have less vertical recoil, and even better dispersion accuracy likewise given the extra weight of the gun to control recoil better.

Now, why does the BAR not get moved into BR 2? We may look at some of the responses by the Helpers:

BR 2 BAR 1918

Well yeah that’s the problem if the BAR were to be BR II it’s ADS speed and sprint speed would have to be reduced but at the same time this is what makes a BAR a “BAR” being able to move fast and aim faster compared other LMG. The only other way this can be done if the BAR were to be sent to BR II is others 20/30 rounder LMG gets faster sprint speed and faster ads but slower than BAR so there’s some what of a bar counter part for other countries

Nerfing recoil itself doesn’t justify moving the BAR to a lower BR:

BAR 1918 and 1918a1 should be rank 2

not sure how when the only significant difference is 10 less points of vertical recoil (and vertical recoil is extremely easy to control) and slow auto

My own take:
Additionally, the BAR 1918 has two advantages over the following two BAR’s: faster ADS speed (0.65>0.6, higher the faster movement, this is probably unnoticeable practically), and a lower movement dispersion penalty (these hidden stats usually increase the machine guns dispersion cone by >3000% typically).

The 1918 has a moving spread increase of 11, while the 1918a2 has 13. For reference -barring pistols and submachine guns- the average gun in enlisted has a dispersion while aiming which does not exceed 0.5, and besides pistols, no main weapon shooting a rifle caliber and smaller has an aiming dispersion which exceeds 0.9

So if you are shooting the BAR while moving (lean bagging, sweating, all the fun stuff), then the 1918 beats the other two BAR’s by a convincing amount.

So in my opinion, we can make the following adjustments to move the BAR 1918 into BR 2:

nerf the dispersion slightly: increase it to 0.35 (same as colt monitor)
Nerf the vertical recoil slightly: increase it to 45- though it matters little
Nerfing the reload also matters little, so keeping the current values is fine.

These are just nerfing the quality of life a little.

Nerf the Sprint factor to 60%

And nerf the moving spread increase: make it the same as the 1918a2 (in the tech tree, so 13).

Do you agree with the BAR 1918 moving to BR 2, following these changes or a similar principle

• Yes
• No

It never made sense to me why the first BAR has less accuracy penalty when moving compared to the later two BAR’s.

As for the new BAR 1918a2 early, I think it should have some similar stats to the 1918a1 and 1918a2.

I personally think it should have the same recoil stats as the 1918a1, with 0.8 recoil control (like the 1918a2). A higher recoil control value is better, so it makes sense for the final BAR to have it (0.9) imo.

The 1918a2 should have the best moving spread increase:11; and the 1918a1 should probably have the same as that of the 1918a2 early:12.

Honestly, this horrible mechanic should just be removed from mg’s imo. But I digress.

I would probably prefer the gun to be foldered behind the 1918a1. Creative liberties can be taken for the guns other stats, but reducing the BAR’s ADS and reload too much is out of character.

In which way should the BAR 1918a2 early be added to the game？

• Foldered
• Infront of BAR 1918a1
• After BAR 1918a2
• In between
• Do not add

If you vote no, please give a constructive criticism.

And, even if everything makes sense, the developers are not obliged to make it happen.

Case in point,

Absolutely disgusting.

But hey, we can all give constructive feedback to hope for change, the writing is on the wall.

[Valkay]

I agree with lowering BAR1918 to BR2, but only if its move penalties are increased, just like other BR2 LMGs.

[LBE_Chapa火红的萨日朗]

?

[Valkay]

sprint factor is completely unrelated to what Im talking about.
Im talking about dispersion increase with moving.

[LBE_Chapa火红的萨日朗]

So you want it bigger

[Valkay]

No, I dont care about the sprint speed. I care about the firing cone (dispersion) that increases for a while with moving.

[coco260]

I use pretty much all the BARs interchangeably and honestly aside from the A2 in the field I don’t really notice any differences between the standard BAR M1918 and the M1918A1.

So with that being said I think that making the BAR M1918 BR II would just make the Bren and Vicker-Berthier Machine Gun immediately obsolete in comparison to the BAR. so I think that it being at BR II would be a little too good. honestly the Lewis Assault Rifle is a little too good at BR II

[Белобандит]

No faction should have a “light" machine gun (Automatic Rifles) in 2 BR TT.
Otherwise, it will spark a new arms race.
Currently, these machine guns can only be obtained through events and Veteran’s Box. That’s the right thing to do.

[Slakrrrrrr]

@LBE_Chapa火红的萨日朗

The proposer originally wanted this gun to go into BR 2. But imo, it doesn’t quite make much sense, given that a few things (probably) need to be nerfed: ADS, reload, sprint reduction, recoil, dispersion, and dispersion penalty on the move.

Firstly, thanks for shouting out my proposal! I appreciate it.

The reason for proposing the M1918A2 early for BR 2 is that it doesn’t require moving any existing weapons to a different BR, which would be especially problematic for the existing M1918A2.

The other reason is the M1918, historically, was the best “performing” version of the weapon. Many GIs would remove the extra furniture designated to the M1918A1 and M1918A2 for the LMG role, to use it more like it was originally designed for.

Ultimately, I tried to consider all pain points to just downtiering any of the existing BAR variants (loadout and unit ownership, stat rebalancing, historical logic when game balance is satisfied, etc), and just adding a new version of the weapon with worse stats seemed like the best solution.

[LBE_Chapa火红的萨日朗]

So it seems like a lot of ppl have changed their minds regarding a br 2 BAR? Well, a new one is in the makings anyways, HAH.

[Slakrrrrrr]

I think a lot of the arguments are silly.

If you make a BR 2 MG with BR 2 MG stats, but it just happens to be modeled as a BAR, does that somehow make it OP?

[Naohmcete]

I vote no

[Pinguim01]

reasonable. as long as it has br2 stats, would be nice to get an American MG for BR2 to match the American squads.

[Astulian]

In all these requests for BR2 BARs one thing I do not get is why lightest BAR, M1918, should get worse movement dispersion, ADS and run speed penalties.
If anything, A1 and A2 BARs should get affected by this and be put to BR2 with stats similar to Bren or Type 97.
These’s plenty of veteran memoirs lamenting heaviness of A2s and plenty of footage of BAR M1918A2s without bipod, made close to original M1918s, seem like GIs like this one more.
(No one ever seems to care about M1918A1, can we just move it to BR2 with worse penalites and call it a day?)

Now, I do understand people complaints about chnages to existing guns (even if I think it’s not a big deal and it happened a lot in the past - just look at Type 99 MG)

So a thing I would suggest is adding Colt R75 as USA BR2 MG with conventional stats similar to Bren.

A commercial version of BAR, weighting 9.5 kg, this one gets close to not-so-magical weight of 10kgs, a point in Elisted where MGs (depending on their rarity) start to lose their mobility bonuses.

Now, some might say it’s closely looking to FN Model 1930 and wz. 1928, but those are not American and should not count! /j (also, no one seems to care about both guns having vastly different stats despite being clones).

Tech tree guns in Enlisted sometimes get worse stats compared to limited stuff (MG42 VS MG42early VS MG45 would like to have a word).
Downtiered 1 BR and with increase weight, R75 would fit BR2 nicely and should scratch an itch for US MG there (who even play BR2 these days?)

• R75 should not be confused with R80 Monitor, that one got lightened a lot and have very good mobility stats in Enlisted. If light M1918 should get heavier penalites, what would you propose to happen to even lighter R80?

[K8r8na_Rheina]

No, that’s too much. Otherwise everyone else would also need a light machine gun at BR 2. And its rate of fire is too high. The Lewis gun already exists, and that’s enough. Other nations don’t even have that.

[SWED_MARKSE_KZK]

What about the MG13, for example? 2BR, 25 rounds, and a higher rate of fire than the bar1918.

[传说巨神伊迪安]

Interesting. Almost all BR 2 machine guns are British with none from the US so far. But this brings up the high-tier M1918 machine gun squad. Not sure if DF will roll out a new machine gun squad by then.

[K8r8na_Rheina]

The MG 13 is a heavy machine gun. If they reduce the BAR’s sprint speed to 50%, I wouldn’t be against it.