**Abolish Uptiering — Call to Arms**

[Axismodeus]

@khtk395

At least I have a choice to avoid playing br4, but I will have no choice to avoid match full of bots.

“At least I can choose not to play BR4.” Think about what that sentence actually admits. A player should never have to avoid a Battle Rating like it’s a hazard. The fact that your recommended solution to uptiering is “just don’t play BR4” is itself the proof that the system is broken. BR4 is the least-played BR precisely because everyone has made the same “choice” you’re describing.Healthy game does not have a BR that its players feel forced to abandon.
You just made my point for me🤣

Second, you’re equating two problems of completely different natures. Uptiering is a design flaw — a fixable error in the matchmaking logic. Bot lobbies (if they even appear) are a population problem — a consequence of player count that any matchmaking system can suffer from. You don’t justify a design flaw by pointing at a hypothetical population problem. That’s not a fair trade.

The bot-lobby fear is speculation, not data. Neither of us has the numbers. But here’s what we do have, observable right now——BR IV is dead and pure fodder, BR I newbies get farmed endlessly by BR II squadstackers, and BR III’s only appeal is farming BR II. Players have long been fed up. Faced with all this, are you just selectively blind? You keep hiding behind “not enough players” to shut me up — but I already said I won’t use that as a main argument without hard data, and you still keep coming at me from that angle.

So the real question isn’t “would ±0 cause bot lobbies?” It’s "why are we still defending a system whose own defenders admit you have to avoid it?

[Axismodeus]

Interesting — I looked up your stats, and they tell a very specific story:

240 of your last 242 games are BR5. You’ve played BR4 exactly zero times.
184 of those are Japan — the strongest BR5 faction.
You queue with the same group of players.

So when you say “at least I can choose not to play BR4,” you’re speaking from a position where that choice was never even on the table for you
You’ve simply never had to live in BR1-4. You sit at the top of the ladder, on the strongest faction, in a premade squad, and you’re telling the players being dragged up from BR4 to “just choose not to play.”

And now it makes sense why you’re defending uptiering. For you, it just a feature. It’s what feeds BR4 players into your matches as punching bags. You don’t experience the downside of it; you experience the upside, every single game. Your “bot lobby” concern isn’t really about queue times — it’s about what happens to your matchmaking when the lower-BR players you’ve been stomping are no longer forced into your games.

I’m not saying you’re wrong about everything. But let’s be honest about what this is: the people most invested in keeping uptiering are the people on the winning end of it. Your stats make that pretty clear.
About your “bot lobby” worries — let me take a wild guess at what you really mean: “If uptiering is gone, who am I supposed to use as a punching bag?” ???

[Axismodeus]

A question for you: you’re a BR V Japanese stacker — what the hell gives you the right to tell BR 1-4’s victims to “just don’t play”? Seriously, what gives you the right?

[GROOT0404]

@khtk395

I will have no choice to avoid match full of bots.

You already don’t have the option to choose how many players you get. Choose the wrong nation at the wrong time and you get a single player besides yourself on your team even with uptiers and downtiers.

And there’s always the old reliable, just quitting a match with too many bots and rolling the dice again.

[Elkaless]

@Axismodeus

Interesting — I looked up your stats, and they tell a very specific story:

240 of your last 242 games are BR5. You’ve played BR4 exactly zero times.
184 of those are Japan — the strongest BR5 faction.
You queue with the same group of players.

OOOF! cmon, get out of here with your factual data! real, provable and indisputable information is not allowed here, only fearmongering from disguised seal-clubbers that not only want to fight people with inferior gear than them as much as possible, but is waiting for them in a stack with their open arms, the most unbalancing issue in the entire game!!!

just as you said, noone knows how a ±0 queue system will affect the queues. because noone knows what the population is, the distribution of said population is by BR, and what that population would choose given a choice in the matter. and noone will know, cause that information will not be given to us by official means. but, as you said, what we really know is that the uptier system is factually making the game worst.

so, why cant we have a month long test of ±0 BR in the main server? because we could actually acquire the factual data. and keeping the community in the dark seems to be the purposefully chosen modus operandi. that, or the poor janitor working on Enlisted cant clean the office, make coffee and develop the game at the same time, and we dont seem to have much more personnel dedicated to the game than that.

hell, we dont even have an exclusive community manager anymore, enlisted CM work is being handled as a side project by Active Matter CM, not to mention War thunder WW2 infantry got entire maps made for their test run while here…radio silence. just watch the last WT infantry test in case of any doubt.

they took 3 months to develop 4 jeeps (develop, as in take them from existing assets already on the maps and letting players spawn in them) and they didnt even added fuel tanks on some of them…

the list goes on. hell, if im going down id rather go with a boom, why cant enlisted apply the same philosophy? if we are going down the drain, at least do it with style and make the population happy just for once!

[khtk395]

@Axismodeus

Interesting — I looked up your stats, and they tell a very specific story:

240 of your last 242 games are BR5. You’ve played BR4 exactly zero times.
184 of those are Japan — the strongest BR5 faction.
You queue with the same group of players.

So when you say “at least I can choose not to play BR4,” you’re speaking from a position where that choice was never even on the table for you
You’ve simply never had to live in BR1-4. You sit at the top of the ladder, on the strongest faction, in a premade squad, and you’re telling the players being dragged up from BR4 to “just choose not to play.”

Lol, you mean that site that was only online few months ago?
What gives you the right to claim I never play other br if you only have few months of data while the merge was already released years ago? Japan br5 wasn’t even there when the merge dropped. Now I mainly play br 5 only because I am tired of supporting those players that don’t even want to build rally point. But that doesn’t mean my experience on other br will magically disappear.

@Axismodeus

About your “bot lobby” worries — let me take a wild guess at what you really mean: “If uptiering is gone, who am I supposed to use as a punching bag?” ???

Lol, in br5 you will face those veteran br5 players and many players simply avoid br4, so there is not that much br4 players for you to use as punch bag to begin with.
Also, the most stacked br is actually br3, where a veteran can go there and farm clueless newbies while have little risk to be uptier.
If I want punch bag I will simply go to br3.

Once again you are just ignoring the player base problem and replace it with personal attack. I play this game long before the merge so I know how bad a bot match is.

Moreover I was already against splitting the playerbase even before the merge so you said I like to use uptier player as punch bag theory is simply nonsense. Where are you at that time?

Expanding into future battlefields harder with merge

Doesn’t matter, it is still copy paste and dev will add way more instead of only few. Lol you really think that adding new campaign will attract enough player to cancel out the player split effect?

The removal of campaigns got a HUGE potential for new maps!

Can be easily solve by providing official historical custom match. If you have enough people you will get full xp. It will separate the queue. It may cause you to wait for the match for too long or get mostly AI player.

Italian faction is needed!

Source? What makes you believe that Western Allies can afford to be split into half? You can’t have double standard. They are basically the same.

Listen up you merge lovers and listen good

It is not sustainable to pick exactly which campaign you want, the player base will be split further when new campaign is added. Lol tech tree tank will also meet tiger II so using your logic people won’t use tech tree tank. Besides that, many people buy gold tank because they want to use unique tank. Historical unit are nothing but skin, since they can equip weapon that the unit don’t use. Unrelated to merge.

Devs, follow your will first

Many people are not happy about that, not just me. If you use this kind of word, I can also ask do you have any evidence this campaign will have enough player? Can you see the future?

[khtk395]

@GROOT0404

You already don’t have the option to choose how many players you get. Choose the wrong nation at the wrong time and you get a single player besides yourself on your team even with uptiers and downtiers.

And there’s always the old reliable, just quitting a match with too many bots and rolling the dice again.

I thought OP said player count is not a problem? So you are saying that player count is actually a problem? So my player count concern is actually valid?

[YUI_SaltyPlayer]

@khtk395

Also, the most stacked br is actually br3, where a veteran can go there and farm clueless newbies while have little risk to be uptier.

In fairness, BR 5 Japan is some of the most stacked BR in the game. Almost always it’s an easy peasy games where you get to stomp the horrible, horrible playerbase that is Soviet BR 5. Hence the abnormally high win rate on BR 5 Japan.

Of course, this does not mean that i support +/-0 BR match making. It definitely has more downsides than the upsides imo.

[khtk395]

@YUI_SaltyPlayer

In fairness, BR 5 Japan is some of the most stacked BR in the game. Almost always it’s an easy peasy games where you get to stomp the horrible, horrible playerbase that is Soviet BR 5. Hence the abnormally high win rate on BR 5 Japan.

I am not sure if we have the understanding of stacked. But br3 is way most popular than any other br. If the advantage of br5 is that great, the population of br5 should be at least close to it. And Japan did have the best playerbase on br5, But I am talking about br for all faction.

[YUI_SaltyPlayer]

@khtk395

I am not sure if we have the understanding of stacked.

BR 5 Japan still has the most stacked playerbase out of all BR/factions. Does that make sense now?

@khtk395

But br3 is way most popular than any other br. If the advantage of br5 is that great, the population of br5 should be at least close to it.

BR 3 is the most popular BR, you are correct. BR 4 is the least played BR of course. About the BR 5, actually people plays BR 5 a lot as well. But there’s a caveat. The most played BR 5 faction so far is the BR 5 germany which has more than 3 times played games than BR 5 Japan. What’s interesting is that Japan BR 5 still has the highest win ratio out of all factions/BR, with whooping 58.4 % win ratio while USSR just in the trash bin with only 41.8% win ratio. There’s a reason that why the veteran players intentionally play BR 5 USSR when they want to have some challenges.

[khtk395]

@YUI_SaltyPlayer

BR 3 is the most popular BR, you are correct. BR 4 is the least played BR of course. About the BR 5, actually people plays BR 5 a lot as well. But there’s a caveat. The most played BR 5 faction so far is the BR 5 germany which has more than 3 times played games than BR 5 Japan. What’s interesting is that Japan BR 5 still has the highest win ratio out of all factions/BR, with whooping 58.4 % win ratio while USSR just in the trash bin with only 41.8% win ratio. There’s a reason that why the veteran players intentionally play BR 5 USSR when they want to have some challenges.

And I am talking in general. So br only not specify to br+ faction.
I think we are talking about different stuff.

[YUI_SaltyPlayer]

@khtk395

I think we are talking about different stuff.

We are talking about the same stuff. I’ve been saying that the BR 5 Japan was and is the most stacked and easiest faction to play, in response to your ‘BR 3 is the most “stacked” and better BR for seal clubbing.’ Which is not true, BR 5 Japan being the easiest and can be backed up by the stats.

[ANT-navajauwu]

In conclusion: I don’t like it when someone with superior weapons/equipment beats me—which is only natural, and besides, they might even have better skills than I do! HAHAHA

[khtk395]

@YUI_SaltyPlayer

We are talking about the same stuff. I’ve been saying that the BR 5 Japan was and is the most stacked and easiest faction to play, in response to your ‘BR 3 is the most “stacked” and better BR for seal clubbing.

How much seal is available for you to club in br5?
Br5 Japan is good players stomping less good players. If you go to br3 as a good player it will be good players stomping noob.
If my goal is to farm bad players, good teammates on br5 will actually stopping me from doing so since they took those kills.
You can win more doesn’t mean you can farm more.

[YUI_SaltyPlayer]

@khtk395

How much seal is available for you to club in br5?

More than BR 3 for sure, as long as you play BR 5 Japan which you apparently did?

@khtk395

If you go to br3 as a good player it will be good players stomping noob.

This is not true. You said it yourself. BR 3 is the most popular BR in the game. This also means that the amount of decently skilled players are abundant on BR 3. BR 3 in general are evenly matched except Japan BR 3, Japan BR 3 suffers from low win ratio but other 3 factions have a comparable win ratio to each others.

@khtk395

If my goal is to farm bad players, good teammates on br5 will actually stopping me from doing so since they took those kills.

This is not really a good argument. You played BR 5 Japan with the pre-made team. Your goal wasn’t really to farm but rather, your goal was to have as much easy games as much as possible if i were to guess.

[khtk395]

@YUI_SaltyPlayer

This is not true. You said it yourself. BR 3 is the most popular BR in the game. This also means that the amount of decently skilled players are abundant on BR 3. BR 3 in general are evenly matched except Japan BR 3, Japan BR 3 suffers from low win ratio but other 3 factions have a comparable win ratio to each others.

But br3 were also dilute by the noob players while br5 is less diluted.

@YUI_SaltyPlayer

This is not really a good argument. You played BR 5 Japan with the pre-made team. Your goal wasn’t really to farm but rather, your goal was to have as much easy games as much as possible if i were to guess.

The last time I play with pre made team is long ago.
That is why I have concern on our understanding of the word “stack”.

[GROOT0404]

No, I’m saying your complaint about the lack of players in any given match is nonsense because nothing would change.

[YUI_SaltyPlayer]

@khtk395

But br3 were also dilute by the noob players while br5 is less diluted.

Like i said, not when you play the very specific faction that has an abnormally high win ratio. There’s a reason that why people perceives queuing as the BR 5 Soviet is the ultimate “lose button”. Because in most cases it is, especailly against BR 5 Japan. I think you are underestimating that how bad the BR 5 Soviet playerbase are.

@khtk395

The last time I play with pre made team is long ago.
That is why I have concern on our understanding of the word “stack”.

Okay, fair enough.

[khtk395]

@GROOT0404

No, I’m saying your complaint about the lack of players in any given match is nonsense because nothing would change

Who says nothing will change, if implemented such function, the problem might not only exist on wrong nation at the wrong time.

[khtk395]

@YUI_SaltyPlayer

Like i said, not when you play the very specific faction that has an abnormally high win ratio. There’s a reason that why people perceives queuing as the BR 5 Soviet is the ultimate “lose button”. Because in most cases it is, especailly against BR 5 Japan. I think you are underestimating that how bad the BR 5 Soviet playerbase are.

I will says the problem is cause by br5 Soviet player is also bad. So it is less related to br4 players getting uptier to br5 which is the point of this topic.