They already did give MP40 a bit better dispersion some time ago, but it didn’t do much.
The low RPM simply cant compete with BR2 SMG powercreep, might aswell move it to BR1
The two buffs are compatible, in fact I also included a dispersion buff, though not as high as the 0.53 dispersion.
My poll is still open and will only automatically close in 4 days, so why the dedicated topic? They will probably just close it down as a “duplicate”.
I think it helps make the game more varied and interesting when you can have SMGs with different damage brackets, so different rates of fire can perform well at the same battle rating because they either 2 or 3 tap vitality. I think the MP.38 could be downtiered, and then you can use a similar weapon that is competitive at each rating?
Agreed the MP40 dispersion could use a buff. Although I can easily be convinced of that for anything, as I’d like to see reduced dispersion across the board.
But to be a bit nitpicky, I do think .53 is a bit low. Most guns around that BR with such low dispersion (M3, M3A1, hopefully the FNAB in the future) have some sort of major downside (low rof + velocity, or poor damage output from low rof). Unlike those, the MP40 still has pretty solid damage output plus better range capabilities, making it more well rounded than them overall, so I would say something like .58 or .60 would be better.
I guess that’s fair, though both the M3A1 and FNAB really aren’t BR 2 material. They simply cannot get enough buffs to make them viable without changing what they are completely.
I mean, MAYBE the FNAB can get a damage and dispersion buff, but the M3A1 would need to be a laser.
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Yeah, implementing all of ww2 smg development in (effectively) 3 BRs is a bit of an exercise in futility unfortunately. Alway gonna be some stuff screwed over.
FNAB-43 could get its correct fire rate (800 rpm) and get moved to BR3.
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I agree.
We need buff MP-40 fire rate. Together with dispersion buff it would be great.
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If the document says 550 where u getting 630 from
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Because with with the complete upgrade of weapons (3 star weapon), the rate of fire will increase to 630 rounds / min. 550 will be default fire rate.
the second weapon upgrade gives SMGs a 15% increase to their fire rate.
550x1,15=632,5 which is than rounded to 630.
Almost all weapons have their maximum fire rate by default, so almost all automatic guns have incorrect fire rate when max upgraded (really bad upgrade IMO, but it is what it is).
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The one unfortunate thing about the MP.40 is the official handbooks don’t have a listed rate of fire, and the rates of fire in various documents are all over the place. Ammo changes from Pist.Patr.08 to Pist.Patr.08mE could also be a factor in the variability of these, since Pist.Patr.08mE is a hotter round.
It’s likely more of a subjective take, but I think the MP.40 is fine at 500 RPM, especially if the M38/42 already sits at 550 RPM.
MP40 had a long production run with close to a million produced between 1940 and 44, with significant changes, varying degree of quality control (especially towards the end of the war) three different main producers with dozens of subcontractors.
any fire rate between 400 and 550 is realistic, but in Enlisted guns almost always have their highest possible fire rate, I dont see why MP40 should be an exception especially since its already an underdog in its BR.
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It’s an underdog at BR 2 because it can’t capitalize on it’s high damage, hence the dispersion buff I’m suggesting in this thread. If you start pushing for 7.0 damage at 550 RPM, I would argue it starts pushing power creep.
Ultimately it’s up to the developers though.
7.0 damage at BR2 with 550 rpm is really not powercreep. Literally just on par with PPS-42 or Lanchester. Trading slightly more damage for less fire rate.
M1A1 Thompson at BR2 with 8.2 damage and 600 rpm kinda beats your whole argument anyway.
I did start a calculation months ago, which I never had time to fully finish, but here it is anyway since its informative.
| without vitality | with vitality | calc steps | ||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| weapon name | damage at 10m | fire rate | muzzle velocity (m/s) | time to kill at 10m (s) | time to down at 10m | time to kill at 10m | time to down at 10m | shots to kill | shots to kill vit | time needed to hit at 10m | calc STK | calc STK vit | time between shots | |||
| Mp40 | 7,00 | 570 | 400 | 0,2355263158 | 0,3407894737 | 3 | 4 | 0,025 | 2,857142857 | 3,357142857 | 0,1052631579 | |||||
| Pps-42 | 6,7 | 690 | 450 | 0,1961352657 | 0,2830917874 | 3 | 4 | 0,02222222222 | 2,985074627 | 3,507462687 | 0,08695652174 | |||||
| Lanchester | 6,8 | 690 | 400 | 0,1989130435 | 0,2858695652 | 3 | 4 | 0,025 | 2,941176471 | 3,455882353 | 0,08695652174 | |||||
| M1A1 Thomson | 8,2 | 690 | 265 | 0,2116488925 | 0,2116488925 | 3 | 3 | 0,03773584906 | 2,43902439 | 2,865853659 | 0,08695652174 | |||||
| Type 100 (early) | 6,7 | 810 | 350 | 0,1767195767 | 0,2507936508 | 3 | 4 | 0,02857142857 | 2,985074627 | 3,507462687 | 0,07407407407 |
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If you ignore the abysmal 265 muzzle velocity, you are correct. I agree that the M1A1 with 30 rounds is too much for BR 2, not .45 ACP is a really inflexible round for most people beyond close range.
If the Uragan fired 50-60 RPM slower than the PPSh-41 Box but could still 2 tap, would that not be overpowered? That would make for a more accurate comparison. To compensate for a two-tap vs a 3 tap, the rate of fire can’t be too quick.
flawed calculation. Lanchester has 600 rpm with 6.8, yet no Japanese player has ever complained about it because it does NOT normally kill in two shoots. (Keep in mind that up until recently, best Japanese SMG was Type2a with 600 rpm and 6.7 damage).
14 damage (7.0x2) is only enough to down someone, to kill an enemy you still need to hit 4 times at regular combat ranges, just as with PPS-42 or Ppsh41. Ignoring the chances to skip downed state which heavily favours 7.62x25.
A soldier with the right perks gets up in 2s, an Infantry III gets up in less than 1s, but you can actually just switch to the next soldier anyway.
So basically, MP40´s advantage over PPS-42 are faster reload, nominally higher damage with a mechanic that is useful in a 1 on 1 fight.
But Pps-42 has higher muzzle velocity (so will always hit first), more bullets in its magazine, less recoil and to top it all of, more fire rate thus having more DPS and faster TTK, which are far more important to mow down an enemy squad.
Shots to kill isn’t nearly as relevant as shots to down.
Buff it or drop it to BR1. I think at this point, even the MP38 and the FNAB should be dropped to BR1 if nothing else.