Yet here is your source from 1953, an even earlier source. How about you read the people he got his sources from?
Internal ballistics - Wikipedia
reducing the amount of propellant that can be used, directly reducing the bullet weight and muzzle velocity combination that contributes to lethality, (as detailed in the published cartridge specifications linked herein for comparison). The 6.5 Grendel, on the other hand, is capable of firing a significantly heavier bullet (see link) than the 5.56 NATO out of the AR-15 family of weapons, with only a slight decrease in muzzle velocity, perhaps providing a more advantageous performance tradeoff.
Aren’t these the same guys who said the Thompson was more accurate than the MP-40 and that the MG 42’s bark was worse than its bite?
Not exactly sure what “internal ballistics” has to do with “stopping power” you earlier mentioned
reducing the amount of propellant that can be used, directly reducing the bullet weight and muzzle velocity combination that contributes to lethality, (as detailed in the published cartridge specifications linked herein for comparison). The 6.5 Grendel, on the other hand, is capable of firing a significantly heavier bullet (see link) than the 5.56 NATO out of the AR-15 family of weapons, with only a slight decrease in muzzle velocity, perhaps providing a more advantageous performance tradeoff.
So 4.5cal pellet guns are the most deadliest?
And that again isnt exactly how it works.
50. cal with .22LR powder charge would equal to bruise, if it even leaves the barrel.
And even less it has to do with “Stopping power” which is about terminal ballistics.
ffs i have already put numerous sources from
- Foreign Military Weapons and Equipment, Vol. III, Infantry Weapons, Pamphlet No. 30-7-4, Department of the Army, 1954.
- Western Cartridge Company Ammunition Handbook from about 1938 and a catalog from 1935
- Winchester Catalog 83 from 1925
- Winchester Ammunition Guide from 1941
- wikipedia (although shitty source)
some extra sources:
- Mauser C-96 - Modern Firearms
- GUNS Magazine The Mauser C96 - GUNS Magazine
- https://www.guns.com/news/review/the-c-96-mauser
- Mauser C96
- you
and yet you are still somehow convinced that singular source that wrote book about thousands of weapons and their performance is correct and it is not mistake in a book?
when doing basic research you always confirm it with multiple sources. i have not found one source that claims mauser had rounds with over 1450 fps for c96 140mm barrel from the time it was actually used. they all list it from 1390-1450fps depending on the source with most of them claiming ~1390fps performance.
Heckler and Koch, Carl Walther, Hans Lockhoven of Cologne, and O. Moraiewitz. All of whom are from Germany and some who worked for Mauser (Heckler and Koch). What do you have to show besides a few American magazines, blog posts, and catalogs from before WW2?
btw this is from small arms of the world 1955 edition.
we are both correct, but i am still claiming that 1575 is not standard, but hot load, same as czech tokarev.
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Let’s bring it in then bro 
But how do you know it is the hot load and not regular?
well i base it from 3 things:
- americans had to get their specifications from somewhere. even if they only referenced german bullet, i dont think they would make it weaker
- according to russian sources, when making tokarev they increased powder charge in comparison to mauser. tokarev is anywhere between 1380-1470fps from tt33 depending on the source from that time. czech tokarev gets anywhere between 1640-1860fps from tt33.
- considering that range is anywhere between 1320 to 1600fps depending on different german ammo, standard ammo should be somewhere in first half of that range cause of first 2 points at least before ww2.
exact data should be in german manuals, but without someone with access to it we will never know exact history of the round and can only speculate. btw i checked few german sites and they all claim ~425m/s for mauser. idk their source, so it could be american cartridge or it could be german.
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That is a good point, indeed. We need someone to make a $2.50 sacrifice for that Mauser manual, lol.
Mauser C96 (German) 7.63mm 1932 Machine Pistol Manual - Cornell Publications (cornellpubs.com)
But even if it does turn out to be a hot load, the 7.63 Mauser and 7.62 Tokarev pre-Czech abomination, are putting up the same numbers as each other.
well they could be similar number or there could be 10% difference. it is really hard to say with varying accounts of speed for c96 and tt-33 and their rounds. in worst case scenario it is 1320fps for mauser and 1470fps for tt-33, which would translate to around 1300 fps for same length barrel for c96, or it could be 1600fps for mauser vs 1380fps for tokarev, but that scenario is less likely, or anywhere in between.
and there is the problem who made that manual and with what ammo. this manual could easily be made by american importer with american ammo. it would be best if there was ww1 and ww2 german army report on performance of c96 or 7.63 ammo.
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So, in conclusion, we could both agree, with the substantial amount of evidence we have both presented, that the MP-717 (r) base fire rate deserves a boost. At the most, the RPM should be 1000 rpm, the same as the regular PPSH 41. At the minimum 900 RPM, same as irl PPSH 41.
As long as it is in the 900 -1000 RPM range, I am fine with it.
What do you say, fellow gun enthusiast, won’t you shake my hand?
Perhaps, but it does say 1932 and says reprinted from the original.
i was just checking the stats of the mp717r and ppsh41 and i think i found the mistake. they are using muzzle velocity from c96 and max tt-33 muzzle velocity instead of ppsh41 and mp717r. they are using 430m/s(1410fps) for mp717r and 450m/s(1476fps) for ppsh41. all sources quote ~485m/s (1600fps) for ppsh41.
tbh i dont care either way for rpm of those 2 weapons. when you upgrade mp717r you get 970rpm and when you upgrade ppsh41 you get 1150. both of those rpm are stupidly high and ultimately make no difference in firefight.
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I understand, but we can at least agree there is a case for the MP 717 (r) to have a higher rpm to right under the PPSH, right?
Not even if it should, but that there is a case to be made.