Upgrade custom servers & improve the editor compatibility

ErikaKalkbrenner · October 2, 2024, 1:33pm

simple suggestion.

( which yes, easy to say than do )

but it would be extremely great if we could get better servers for customs.

it’s super annoying having to deal with many limitations and above all, lag.

clans cant play community matches that the servers just themselves and every player involved experience to some degree, lag spikes.

which it’s not due to their bad connection.
well, sometimes, but not always.

and personally, i cannot describe in simple words the hate and frustration of us modders that we have to experience on a daily after having carefully created a map, placed all the buildings, used custom profiles for both players or AI, all the custom entities and yet, the game does not fully load the effing map on the server.

leaving players in multiple instances not being able to spawn ( because the server fails to load assets )
or, not being able to progress in the mission, ( because the server sometimes fails to load the logic )
assets are missing;

i may sound crazy, but i’m not kidding when i say, these servers do not even fully load what they are supposed to:

this is in the editor:

this is in the custom games servers:

the effe is someone supposed to do?.

" make the map lighter "
well i did. and it still didn’t worked ( didn’t even touched terraform or grasseraser which are the most consuming / killing stability process things ) i even removed getations, decals from houses anything.

so how about we get more decent and stable servers instead.

why ?

well, i don’t really understand how people don’t think it through and realize that customs are effectively a way for veterans or people that finished the grind / want to try new experiences goes to.

the only actual place where ( ideally, because let’s be honest. it’s more of a theory than actual practical reality due to the many editor and custom games restrictions & limitations ) you are supposed to do that.
remember? ha toos?
( granted, HA requires less. but it’s still sometimes plagued by custom content in the sense that if you have more squads, it starts becoming lagging )

" report issues of custom games through the bug report site "

it’s funny that occasionally you’ll see a helper or the community managers across all platform to advise you to report such issues there.

yet, when we do, they get entirely ignored.
and if you are “lucky” gets slapped with a " aknowledged " and to mock you, even go to the extent of marking it with " fixed " when in reality, it isn’t.

" nobody plays customs and are not a priority ".

wrong, and also wrong. ( partially )

first of all, it’s more of a necessity.
you want for players to stick around? then do something about that.

second of all, it may be true that customs games are sort of unpuplare. but it kinda ties to what i keep repeating. lack of xps ( which deserves a whole thread of it’s own because i’m not the most qualified person to talk about that and the implications reaches extream extents ) and the shitty conditions custom games are, almost makes nobody want to even touch those.

to reiterate

custom games servers are bad because:

for some god’s unknown reason, in order to start custom made missions, you have to put the lobby server in NA ( North america ). automatically making the whole experience a nightmare for non NA users.
most of the times those are laggy. be it because the server being in NA, or not being able to fully handle 10v10 squads games with all players.
custom game servers do not fully load missions with more than 16k rendinsts
( the effe is the purpose of being able to do elaborated missions with actual fully fledged custom made missions if the game it self wont even be able to load them? sunking alot of time in the process with no warnings other than a big " effe you " with no ways of knowing that until you are “”“greeted”“” with these piss poor servers )
custom games servers struggles to keep an optimal performance with custom made profiles that are different for both players and bots and/or have more than 10 squads
custom games servers do not load all functions of the editor.
many nodes/features do not show up. example, the tonemap_editor color grading node do not show up.
neither some of the effects, placable boxes or medkits, some rendinsts. there are so many things that are effed up. which just to show and report it takes years.
custom games servers do not get displayed correctly in the replay system
custom games servers struggle to have players + 200 stationary AI soldiers.
as i make pves, i have been forced to give up entirely because the servers are unable to handle those many soldiers on the map.
everything starts to be laggy and performance drastically reduced. i found my self literally uploading unedited missions from the base game with just few AIs to make some sort of pve.
fun fact, still not stable because the servers just struggles.
the custom games keep poppip up with " switched army " error and it’s literally unplayable.
it was supposed to be fixed yet it’s still here.

and last but not least, random errors

servers struggle to load missions with more than 16k nodes
often forcing players to not respawn at all. and have to exit the game back to the lobby, and rejoin.

Mopuit · October 2, 2024, 2:06pm

Yeah the live server put object that are not in mod

Enginya · October 2, 2024, 4:34pm

Hi, those objects are part of game level and weren’t removed because they moved in level itself since mod was created. This is a caveat of creating mods over existing levels. This mod author should retouch scenery remover in the mod to make sure all unwanted objects removed correctly.

Mopuit · October 2, 2024, 4:35pm

You are talking to me or the other guy?

Enginya · October 2, 2024, 4:38pm

To you, yes ^^

ErikaKalkbrenner · October 2, 2024, 5:10pm

" the other guy " ?

is there someone else that i am missing?

Mopuit · October 2, 2024, 5:14pm

yeah the problem is when entering the editor I don’t see the green arch so I have to move the building and reupload the mod so the floating object are removed or it something complete different ?

Enginya · October 3, 2024, 7:08am

Were those archs there before? Did you delete their buildings? And then created your own? I need more information to understand your problem.

Enginya · October 3, 2024, 7:16am

Should be considered. I’ll ask.

Those may be client-only features. When no _use:t=“replicating” in its template it will not replicate from server to clients. Not every feature designed for replicating. Some may be created by events from server by client code. Anyway please report exact templates names in this_format like postfx_color_grading_tonemap (did you mean this one?). So we can resolve problems one by one.

Enginya · October 3, 2024, 7:24am

Screenshots would help with pointing out what exactly displayed incorrectly. Then I’ll ask.

Why do you think they should work non-laggy with so many AI soldiers?
Currently AI soldiers designed to work optimally with up to 100 player squads bots.
So, it’s by their code design, they were not further optimized, but support good features.
Faster code means less features. And standing bots cost almost the same as moving ones.

Again rendering 200+ animated models is not something good for the game.

Maybe it would be a solution to request special ‘bot-like entities’ like turrets which stand still and look like soldiers, but don’t use physics (yes even for just standing), don’t die with ragdolls, don’t check surroundings for enemies (when there are lots of other bots around in a way vs optimized performance), etc. But I doubt you will be happy with them. So total of 100 any bots is a current limit.

Screenshot would help. And log file. How else can I possibly understand what do you mean by “switched army” error?

Maybe what you need is triggers-based spawners? For PvE. So only few dozen of bots exist at the same time? And new spawn when any player enters trigger zones?

Then it means we’ll need Triggers system. Good news it was already implemented in side tests. So it could now be integerated into the game if mod support will be continued. Can’t really control it

robihr · October 3, 2024, 9:39am

does it encounter CPU bottleneck with that many AI soldiers? if yes is it cause of single thread performance or cause of limited cores assigned to server in case of multi thread performance? in other words would faster CPU or more cores help with that issue?

Enginya · October 3, 2024, 10:03am

For internal reasons. As is.

robihr · October 3, 2024, 10:06am

well i am asking cause if it is hardware limitation you could introduce premium servers with better hardware for people who want more players/bots on it.

Mopuit · October 3, 2024, 10:25am

The archs wasn’t there when I create the mod and yes I deleted the building who was there

Enginya · October 3, 2024, 10:49am

Then archs were added later for this building in level. Did you try to use scenery_remover object to remove everything in its box? It’s more proof way to delete level objects than deleting them by selecting and removing.

ErikaKalkbrenner · October 3, 2024, 12:58pm

alright.

sure.

let’s do this. luckily i have some time

yes, i meant this one.

so, this is how it looks like in the editor:

this is how it is in the game:

and here is in the code of the scene.blk:

postfx_color_grading_tonemap{
  _override:b=yes
  _tags:t="server"

    whiteTint:r=0.18
    whiteTemp:r=15200
}

and here is the scene of entities.blk:

postfx_color_grading_tonemap{
  _override:b=yes

  "white_balance:object"{
    whiteTemp:r=15200.0
    whiteTint:r=0.18
    _tags:t="replicate"
  }
}

i made sure it was more blue tinted, yet it didn’t changed much in the base live version.

neither gets ported over the custom servers.

others functions that i can mention,

trucks with ammoboxes attached on them.

( note. at this moment in time, i’m forced to use another mission. because apparently, the ones i just mentioned above no longer works it just doesnt let me spawn in the editr despite spawns being up and what not. as of today that i was going to test too and i don’t know why. but the templates are still the same. so no. i’m trying to make up lies or anything )

over the editor, i can grab ammo without issues:

but when i play the actual mission, the ammo box does not work:

like, it does absolutely nothing.

P.S: no. i did not just picked up the BAR and tried to grab ammo with it.

you can test if for your self here:
https://sandbox.enlisted.net/post/BXnvtWO6fxSPt4rG/manifest/5/

just a small heads up. do not load it in local because it will not allow you to use the mouse… nor spawn with infantry and / or, despite the team being set on 1, you may happen to play on the german side. which does not have spawns because it’s the “ghost” team. where players 2 do not have spawns otherwise they will interfere with team 1 ( as… it’s a pve after all ). i don’t know why that happens, but it happens.

also, when you at least started the mission the first time, make sure to exit back to the lobby, and rejoin.
why? because of the fantastic servers we have to deal with on a daily base ( hence why this suggestion exists in the first place )

code


studelbaker_with_ammo{
  _use:t="us_studebaker_us6_u1_board_apc_common"
  animchar__res:t="studebaker_us6_u1_tent_char"
  collres__res:t="studebaker_us6_u1_tent_collision"
  dmg_animchar__res:t="studebaker_us6_u1_tent_dmg_char"
  xray_resource__modelName:t="studebaker_us6_u1_tent"
  vehicle_seats__exitTime:r=0.66
  vehicle_seats__enterTime:r=3.2
  buildingRadius:r=3.2
  team:i=1
  vehicle_seats__autoDetectRestrictToTeam:b=no
  vehicle_seats__restrictToTeam:i=1

  "vehicle_seats__seatsProvideOrder:tag"{
  }

  "vehicle_seats__seats:shared:array"{

    "seats:object"{
      name:t="driver"
      locName:t="vehicle_seats/driver"
      seatOwnsEntityControl:b=yes
      attachNode:t="driver"
      ignoreAttachNodeRotation:b=yes
      attachTm:m=[[0.982415, -0.0697568, -0.173222] [0.0686968, 0.997564, -0.0121128] [0.173645, -6.83576e-08, 0.984811] [-0.21, -0.27, 0.03]]
      seatComponent:t="isDriver"
      nextSeat:t="main_gunner"
      shouldHideOwner:b=no
      receiveDamageFromDMPart:t="driver"
      cameraNodeName:t="bone_camera_driver"
      seatAnimUpper:t="drive_passenger"
      seatAnimLower:t="drive_passenger"
      cameraType:t="commander"
      cameraOffset:p3=-0.6, 0.0, 0.0
      isHoldGunModeAllowed:b=no
      canPlaceManually:b=yes

      "effectors:object"{

        "l.hand:object"{
          rel_tm:m=[[0.0851838, -0.970556, 0.225314] [-0.939916, -0.153311, -0.305046] [0.330607, -0.185791, -0.925301] [0.0211945, -0.177658, -0.0101857]]
          node:t="bone_roll_driver"
        }

        "r.hand:object"{
          rel_tm:m=[[0.836249, -0.311198, -0.451491] [0.249915, 0.949174, -0.191344] [0.488088, 0.0471778, 0.871518] [-0.00431824, -0.0294845, 0.022068]]
          node:t="righthand_1"
        }

        "l.foot:object"{
          rel_tm:m=[[0.995638, -0.0746422, -0.0559771] [0.0689625, 0.992862, -0.0973136] [0.0628412, 0.0930286, 0.993678] [-0.111908, 0.019249, 0.0376506]]
          node:t="pedal_lfoot_1"
        }

        "r.foot:object"{
          rel_tm:m=[[0.995442, -0.0923976, -0.0236351] [0.0908056, 0.99398, -0.061318] [0.0291585, 0.0588923, 0.997839] [-0.0988464, -0.027298, -0.00410652]]
          node:t="pedal_rfoot_1"
        }
      }
    }

    "seats:object"{
      name:t="passenger1"
      locName:t="vehicle_seats/commander"
      attachNode:t="commander"
      shouldHideOwner:b=no
      ignoreAttachNodeRotation:b=yes
      attachTm:m=[[0.9, 0.0, 0.0] [0.0, 0.9, 0.0] [0.0, 0.0, 0.9] [-0.208333, -0.272708, -0.0307407]]
      seatComponent:t="isPassenger"
      receiveDamageFromDMPart:t="commander"
      seatAnimUpper:t="drive_passenger"
      seatAnimLower:t="drive_passenger"
      canPlaceManually:b=yes
      isHoldGunModeAllowed:b=no
      seatEnum:t="right_seat"

      "effectors:object"{

        "l.hand:object"{
          rel_tm:m=[[0.368414, -0.831849, -0.415086] [0.929585, 0.335379, 0.152951] [0.0119788, -0.442207, 0.896832] [0.174759, -0.0456972, -0.0943356]]
          node:t="lefthand_2"
        }

        "r.hand:object"{
          rel_tm:m=[[0.77197, -0.180343, -0.609542] [0.56465, 0.634963, 0.527251] [0.291949, -0.751198, 0.592002] [-0.0246582, 0.0627151, 0.0256481]]
          node:t="righthand_2"
        }

        "l.foot:object"{
          rel_tm:m=[[0.980339, -0.178024, -0.0851076] [0.16498, 0.976108, -0.141401] [0.108247, 0.12458, 0.986287] [-0.189102, -0.156425, 0.079536]]
          node:t="pedal_lfoot_2"
        }

        "r.foot:object"{
          rel_tm:m=[[0.974868, -0.147854, 0.166648] [0.153181, 0.988006, -0.0195086] [-0.161765, 0.0445456, 0.985824] [-0.169769, -0.176437, 0.057519]]
          node:t="pedal_rfoot_2"
        }
      }
    }
  }

  "dm_phys_parts__wheelsPartIds:list<i>"{
  }

  "animchar__objTexReplace:object"{
    "us_camo_olive*":t="us_camo_winter_blots*"
    "studebaker_us6_u1_tent_c*":t="fr_camo_winter_green_white*"
  }

  "attach_decorators__entities:list<eid>"{
  }
  "attach_decorators__templates:array"{
    "attach_decorators__templates:object"{
      relativeTm:m=[[1.29919e-07, -1.49012e-08, -1] [0.0656767, 0.964336, 2.17557e-06] [0.997662, -0.0679504, -2.34228e-07] [-0.28, -4.35, -0.13]]
      template:t="ammo_decor_1"
      nodeName:t="emtr_fire_engine"
    }
  }
}


ammo_decor_1{
  _use:t="base_ri_building"
  _use:t="placeable_item_in_world"
  _use:t="ammunition_box_a"
  ri_extra__name:t="ammunition_box_piles_c"
  ri_extra__hasCollision:b=no
  useful_box__useCount:i=-1
  useful_box__maxUseCount:i=999999
  placeable_item__ownerTeam:i=1
  builder_info__team:i=1
  team:i=1
  resupply_zone__team:i=1
  buildingRadius:r=3.2
  useful_box__maxUseCount:i=9999999
}

personally, of certain i know that skc turrets, and mg42s are not correctly displayed in the replay system. as well as scenary_remover

here is an example:

over this mod,
https://sandbox.enlisted.net/post/ozeeUEnycKEpd6VE/manifest/20/

you can see that the stalingrad buildings have been removed.

yet in the replay Gaijin Entertainment - Single Sign On those appears back.

which it’s kinda minor. but making screenshots or videos on it kinda gets difficult next to impossible.

same goes with custom made soldiers:

here is in the editor:

here is in the replay system:

( yes, sometimes not even effing rendinsts appears )

and a primal example of actual templates not showing up, you can try @tommyZZM big action mode.
half of the stuff he made, do not show up in the replay system.

i don’t know.

you tell me:

i don’t know about that.

not to be a smart ass, but based on my experience when making pves, it’s all but " optimized ".

even just for standing still.

and you’re telling me that it’s an issue?

like, those weren’t supported.

but then, why am i allowed to make them or use them in mods if weren’t supported?

why is there an entire soldier section in the editor:

( no insults condoned )

but again, it seems odd that you can support squads bots, but not bots that are supposed to be stationary.

you see. if bots them selves wouldn’t leave as soon as the objective gets captured, or crowed/converge all in one single stupid place when the cap is giant,. i wouldn’t complain too much.

they are far from ideal.

the reason why i use stationary bots, it’s because makes the battlefield feel more alive. provide fights in OTHER AREAS OTHER THAN THE CAPZONE IT SELF.

ambush bots, guards bots, you name it, can be done through those.

but apparently, i come to the realization ( after more than 2 years it seems ) we can’t have nice things.

sis,
brave of you to assume that we actually get what we suggest for the editor it self.

i may not have higher standards, but that’s low even for me.

so, you are correct. i do not infact like the sound of that.

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/enlisted/i/fENaxwveUaB7

so… aside from the fact that, it takes me actual months to finalize and make a custom made mode.
from the researches, up to the custom made map, custom made weapons, templates of vehicles, uniforms, profiles, logic and all of that. ( which that alone takes alot of time ).

you’re now implying that i should sectionize my own mods an make them smaller even further than they already are?

i’m already forced to make small action packed LF PVEs because of the limitations that the editor and custom matches severly tempers with the design and gameplay side, ( originally, i had bigger plans ) now i should even add smaller spawner with 12 soldiers per time?

you do know that with 50 players ( since lone fighter can have up to that number ) those 12 soldiers aren’t going to be / do much… right? they aren’t even enough to cover a single house or provide a meaningfull fire fighter.

which the entire and whole idea would be, around players hopefully stepping into those mines to trigger spawns and release bathches of soldiers at a time.
again, hoping that someone will step on those.

and also, not to mention, i have no idea how trigger spawns works.

@Devenddar told me about a mine trigger system that spawned soldiers, but A, it’s far from ideal because the players actually have to somehow get in range and trigger those soldiers, and B, he… isn’t really active anymore.

do you know how crazy that sounds?

so … i’m not sure how further i should progress.

it sounds to me maybe i was wrong all alone and should be looking elsewhere to do anything remotely interesting.

it’s kinda funny because the pves i had in mind, don’t even come close to the ideal or original projects.

yet everything anyone does in this editor, it’s so frustratingly limited.

to this point, should we even bother?

september 23.

almost a year since you mentioned those. yet i don’t see them.

because as you said:

which i’m inclined to believe you.

but the fact that those aren’t still here.
all i can say is;

yikes.

which, i appreciate you being the only developer actively parting and show at least some interest out of 120 developers… or how many you guys are.

but honestly, my faith is kinda weavering and be an all time low.

because many things were promised for the editor, yet not much has been delivered.

custom content
equipment selector
improvements such as testing profiles in local
countless features requested ( such as 3d text, a way to upload custom textures more consistently, lock teams in custom matches, add more teams/faction active per match change teams engagements for example team 1 and 2 that are friendly vs team 3 etc )

just… a deafening silence.

Mopuit · October 3, 2024, 2:05pm

When I created the mission I select and deleted. But still is there a way to resolve the problem ? Here a link to the mission and the file of the mission https://sandbox.enlisted.net/post/H5ZSwvtALaUKFcF9/
Garage.zip (206.1 KB)

Enginya · October 3, 2024, 7:33pm

I’ve read everything. Ohhh… In short: 1) postfx_color_grading_tonemap should be entity in scene.blk, not named block and _tags:t="replicate" is incorrect in entities.blk too (should be without _tags), 2) ammo boxes should be investigated separately, 3) mods replays should be fixed, no task for it for now, 4) EPIC SCALE is advert text for the game, not for editor or mods (which are extra with own limits), 5) you misread about not further optimized (were not optimized more than required for the game, not mods), 6) mods are extra, no guarantees in editor or mods for you to have everything “player smooth” , 7) soldiers there for you to place them, 8) I didn’t make difference between squad bots and stationary bots, they are all the same, about 100 max before them getting laggy (and yes, custom servers aren’t ideal), 9) emotional pause, 10) will check the issue with “army changed” next week, 11) Nobody gave you guarantees you can place 10000+ soldiers without any lags, so no complains, please, 12) I just suggested that many PvE could be created in a way to spawn packs of 10…100 bots at a time until all killed and then spawn next ones (and it will require new Triggers system to detect moment when bots were killed, which will be cool thing), 14) please stop trying to insult me with “oh I will drop everything”, it makes me unhappy (limited resource), 15) yes, mods support were frozen, but seems to be starting moving futher just now.

ErikaKalkbrenner · October 3, 2024, 9:04pm

but the first is what it comes by default when i place the entity and save the various changes.

so perhaps just like:

templates are outdated / incorrect.

i’ll be sleeping in a bit. but with this " replicate " perhaps we may be able to get more things to work.

rrrrrright.

correct me if im wrong,
but in the english dictionary:

thousants = 1000 ( slighty more )

yet, if i place 200 soldiers, it starts go nuts.

i don’t claim to be a good mathematician. but such math does not add up.

so, when the promotional material claims that there can be battles up to such numbers, where the effe can we experience those?

definitely not in the base game 10v10 where at best, each soldiers comes up with 9 soldiers squads. ( 9x20 = 180 )
still 820 soldiers missing somewhere.

and to my knowledge, not in the editor either.

something, ain’t right.

please explain.

otherwise, i’ll have planty of complains.

it was sarcasm.

it just goes beyond my understanding.

one thing is having to cut corners.

another is entirely having to find work arounds for pretty much majority of the things.

as i’m sure you know, the ammount of issues this editor has surpasses most of players expectations.

which it’s not saying much… but holy moly.

no wonder why mods digest died with the not many people makes mods because it’s next to impossible to do most things.

and if you do, they won’t even load, or get ruined by bad performance.

which i still point fingers to the servers.

yeah apparently if i do, or anyone for that matter, performance decreases.

thanks a bunch…

at least we’re on agreement regarding the servers.

but… stationary bots may be similar to squads bots, but they work and act differently.

so… that may be true, but it’s not why we use ones over the others.

thanks

that’s… great to hear but…

it’s the past few years since the editor dropped we have often being reminded how things were supposed to be underwork, how X will arrive, how Y will be improved, yet, we kept waiting and nothing ever showed up ( beside custom templates )

the neglicence have been to an all time high.

so, forgive me for being on a edge, but there isn’t much to look forward to.

and i am forced to drop everything because nothing of what i do which works in the editor, ( to some extent ) works online. i have literally 7 mods done across the years in perfect smaller details but wont load, wont function properly and cannot be played as a proper pve because of many limitations.

trilions of issues regarded customs and the editor were pointed out, yet nothing much has been done with it. lacks of guides, lacks of improvements, lack of a location editor literally everything that we ever asked for.

the irony.

not to mention, most of the modding community runs because of you, devenddar, bazsi and tommy

but you are quite busy, and devenddar is no where to be seen. probably took a break, probably left, we’ll never know.

bazsi and tommy are quite busy too, and the majority of us are swinging in the darkness hoping to come across the right blk ( because good luck finding what you are looking for to then edit. for example, the new AI tanks to change the number of active ai tanks or increase the time before they hop off and go on foot etc ) as much interactions with the community is good, this kinda exceed it in a bad way.

the only thing consistent, and kinda understandable, were the mods breaking all the times with newer updates. which if you are lucky, it may be just a template not working. in the worst case scenario, your whole map modified because the vanilla map was modified and you either have to move/remove the new assets ( adding up in the scenary_remover or greass eraser ) and be greeted with a unusable map. yet not much support to fix them. to this day, i have no idea how to read a bug report with all those lines and what not.

i’ll ( as much to the next enlisted modder ) probably die of ages before anything happens at this point.

but, i don’t presume lashing out accomplishes anything.
so, don’t take it personally.

with that being said, i appreciate your time.